9x45 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Alan, just trying to get him into the game. It's more tribal lore than science, but that's how science majors approach problems, by over thinking it. Trying to quantify things, instead of accepting the empirical results. Better to jump in, than to research forever and not actually start shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I agree with you 100% on the Engineer/Science mind-set! I think you really blew him away with the velocity you listed. Was that in your 357 SIG? Sounds about right for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Alan, yea, but I have chron'd Double Tap 125s to 1,600fps out of my G31. You have to hang on tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Chemist, most of us, like 9x45, load to support our shooting habit -- it's a means to an end. Some of us, however, look at the loading as a separate but related activity, equally enjoyable as the shooting itself. I am in the second group. So take it from me when I say that on this matter, 9x45 is 100% correct. If you keep at what you're doing for too long, you'll end up with analysis paralysis, that will become your process, and your reloading can become an obstacle to your shooting. At this point, you've been in the brothel for five hours, and you're thumbing through your wallet pondering which credit card is going to work best on a redhead. But it's a brothel, so as long as they're not over a pre-established limit, they ALL work. Listen to 9x45, use starting load, start loading live, and get to banging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Quit trying to turn a simple mechanical process into an academic experiment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Nah, I was referring to movement when I tried to caliper it. It would wiggle a little if you weren't careful. CS, At what point were you measuring OAL? If after seating but prior to taper crimp there shouldn't be any wiggle. If so, you're over-expanding. The mechanics (which you're working on now are important to a point, but what you'll find depending upon the volume of ammo you're going for is that idiot-proofing the actual process of cleaning, sorting dealing with the minor press glitches that cause moments of inattention are extremely important. Depending on your die setup you need to develop a scan pattern that has you looking at powder level, looking at the bullet as it seats, watching the case (if you have a case feeder) and taking a quick look at the Powder Cop if you're using one. So, once you have the important science out of the way it's less quantifiable, higher level process you'll need to master. e.g., a .380 ACP case sneaks through your process, loads and goes into the bag. It may just be a very soft round that doesn't eject or may be a squib. Several ways to detect and prevent, but if, for example, you're thinking "I'm only buying new brass and only picking up my own brass" that isn't going to happen in the real world at a real range (and new brass gets expensive). Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) (Note: The bullets have to be crimped (or "deflared", which is a more accurate description for 9mm) in position 4, or they will move when you try to measure the length.) Why is the bullet moving before you crimp it? I was referring to movement when I tried to caliper it. It would wiggle a little if you weren't careful. CS, At what point were you measuring OAL? If after seating but prior to taper crimp there shouldn't be any wiggle. If so, you're over-expanding. I am not sure how I read over this and missed this. Chemist, YES, how in the world is there wiggle after the bullet is seated? There's no way. It's not even possible for it to be over-expanding. If you were over-expanding deep enough into the case to allow wiggle, the case mouth would be too wide to fit into the subsequent dies. The only way for this to happen is if you're either not resizing the case in station 1 or you've set up the die like a neck sizing die for bottle neck cartridges and just resizing the top with the section of the die meant for the wider bottom part of the case. Neck tension holds the bullet in place. Neck tension comes from the resize. There's no way for the bullet to wiggle after seating if you're resizing properly. Is there any chance you can raise the ram on your press all the way to the top with no case in place, take a close-up picture of the space between the shellplate and sizing die, and post it here? Something is WAY wrong. Edited December 31, 2015 by IDescribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistShooter Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) I meant straight down, not side-to-side. I was putting too much force on the calipers and forcing it back a little. I am putting .002" flare on the case mouth. Just the teensiest litle bit necessary.Just shot the first ten rounds yesterday, by the way. Everything worked fine. Edited December 31, 2015 by ChemistShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) Too much force on the calipers was simply altering the caliper reading, not moving the bullet in the case. And no, you don't need to resort to light wave measurement techniques, caliper measurements are accurate enough for this purpose... Edited December 31, 2015 by TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yeah, unless you built custom calipers out of Vise-grips, your calipers weren't moving the bullet. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yeah I'm still confused what he's talking about with this movement/wiggling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It sounds like he was bearing down on the calipers and getting the calipers to drift a couple thousandths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It sounds like he was bearing down on the calipers and getting the calipers to drift a couple thousandths. Yeah but then he said you need to crimp before measuring OAL or else something (not sure what) will move. If he means the calipers why would crimping first change that? So I'm still confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exaibachey Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I found the link I mentioned earlier that explains the easier way to measure max OAL, see post #4: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0 Oh my gosh!! What a fantastic link to an amazing post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now