Paint Color on USPSA Classifier Poppers

[George]

Blaze orange is a great steel color and isn’t a problem with a dot, just jerk the trigger when it disappears ;-)

White is OK for shoot poppers, but I have also seen solid white used for NS poppers.

We do need to look at the other stages in a match and make sure some consistency is applied. One stage using white for shoot steel and another using white for NS steel would be a bad thing in my book. NS poppers should be white with a contrasting X on them IMO.

I sometimes use black for hard-cover poppers (which I love using in shotgun stages with clays and smaller steel hidden behind them) and think it should probably not be used for shoot steel except maybe in the special case of long distance rifle steel, where a white (non-scoring) paper target face behind a black steel target is the heat for irons, dots and optics at any distance, in any type of lighting angle and low light.

I kinda think you should put some thought into separating the target from the background in all possible lighting conditions for the competitor, otherwise the target presentation can change enough during the course of a day/match to open up the protest/arbitration door.

It really is bad enough that our dirt colored paper targets get put in front of dirt berms in bad light, we don’t need camo steel too.

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Regards,

[Tman33_99]

Tman33_99,

Why do you think that painting steel differwent colors equates to putting on the "best matches" for your club???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Flex, I don't think painting steel different colors = better match. I think having the options available to put together the best match with the tools, targets, and props available does. While I don't always or even usually use different color steel on a stage I believe the rule as written gives me that option. If I hear shooters complaign about a color because it is lost in their dot/sights/berm/sun, etc. I take that into account and either change it or avoid that situation in the future.

[omnia1911]

Scoring targets...must be of...a...single...color

Regardless of how you want to read the rule...

As a stage designer...you have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish.  I am of the school of, "let's test the shooting."  If you have to explain the targets in the stage briefing, then maybe your design isn't putting the shooting at the top of the list?

Pretty stages are nice, but I put cosmetics down the list quite a bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it it best that all the scoring metal targets on a stage be of the same solid color. And, just as the rules state that the scoring paper targets must be cardboard colored, they could have easily stated that scoring metal targets must be white, rather than "preferably white". The rules state that penalty metal targets must be clearly marked or of different color from the scoring targets. Problems could arise on a stage with both scoring and penalty metal targets where someone decides to paint each piece of steel a different color, including the penalty steel. This could result in a very confusing mess as the shooters try to remember which color scores and which penalizes.

4.1.2 Scoring targets used in all IPSC Handgun matches must be of a

single color, as follows:

4.1.2.1 The scoring area of scoring paper targets must be of a typical

cardboard color.

4.1.2.2 The entire front of scoring metal targets must be painted a

single color, preferably white.

4.1.3 Penalty targets must be clearly marked or be of a single color different

from scoring targets.

[Flexmoney]

Gary Stevens said he talked with Amidon about this issue. Maybe one of them will post the details...

[Gary Stevens]

Each individual popper must be a solid color. However you can use various colors for each individual piece of steel i.e. Red-White-Blue-Green, etc. Any No-Shoot steel must be of a different color from any of the shoot steel.

Gary

[Tman33_99]

Thanks for the update Gary.

[omnia1911]

Each individual popper must be a solid color.  However you can use various colors for each individual piece of steel i.e. Red-White-Blue-Green, etc.  Any No-Shoot steel must be of a different color from any of the shoot steel.

Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure glad I'm not color blind. A stage like that with both scoring and penalty metal targets would be a nightmare.

[Gary Stevens]

Since no-shoot steel must be of a different color than the scoring steel there will always be a color difference between the steel. I would suppose this is something color blind individuals have to deal with all the time. I don't know of any prohibition against including an "X" on the no shoot steel to further identify it as a penalty target.

[Jim Norman]

So, if I read correctly, we can have a Christmas theme of Red and Green, Or a Stop light array of Red, Yellow Green or any other thematic array you can think of.

No shoots could be Red on Stage 1, Yellow on Stage 2 and so on. All the steel can be different colors within each stage.

So far so good. Unless you are shooting a dot at oragne or red steel.

I would think I'd add an "X" to the N/S steel if I were using multi-colors.

Now, does N/S Steel need to fall?

Can N/S steel fall?

Can N/S steel be sent not to fall in some casse or to fall in others? We have used N/S poppers to activbate a port cover. Hit the N/S popper and the ports close, now you have to go to two additional shooting positions. Aim carefully and you get the "Easy" shots.

Jim

[XRe]

Now, does N/S Steel need to fall?

Can N/S steel fall?

Can N/S steel be sent not to fall in some casse or to fall in others? We have used N/S poppers to activbate a port cover. Hit the N/S popper and the ports close, now you have to go to two additional shooting positions. Aim carefully and you get the "Easy" shots.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Yes, and Yes - provided on the last one that a given NS steel target either falls for all shooters, or stays up for all shooters. NS steel must be painted after all hits if it remains standing. IIRC - NS steel that stays standing can also have multiple hits (ie, it's like a paper NS, except you literally can't penetrate it....).

4.3.1.7 and 4.3.1.8 discuss procedures for falling and non-falling steel penalty targets

[Jim Norman]

Essentially in my Item 3, using a falling N/S to activate a port closure, we need to calibarte the popper. I have no problem with that.

Jim Norman

[bayoupirate]

Okay, A white paper target is a No Shoot, but ALL of the matches I've shot have presented only White Steel Targets.

It seems to me that if White will be the NO SHOOT Color, Steel should be any color but white.

White should be reserved for Penalty Steel targets.

Just My 1 Cent.

[Gary Stevens]

White paper targets are normally no-shoot targets because they are manufactured that way for convience sake.

Rule 4.1.3 says "Penalty targets must be clearly marked or be of a single color different from scoring targets."

This allows you to use regular brown targets as penalty targets as long as they are clearly marked as penalty targets in some manner.

As to colors anyone who wished to could market penalty targets in a variety of colors that are different from the normal cardboard color of the shoot target. Here is a perfect opening the market for you to explore

[omnia1911]

Since no-shoot steel must be of a different color than the scoring steel there will always be a color difference between the steel.  I would suppose this is something color blind individuals have to deal with all the time. I don't know of any prohibition against including an "X" on the no shoot steel to further identify it as a penalty target.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The rules don't require an X on the penalty steel. It is optional, in lieu of a color difference. If someone decides to use yellow and green colored steel, with the green steel being the penalty steel, a colored blind person will have difficulty telling the two apart. Yellow/green color blindness is the most common (99%). Blue/Yellow also exists, but is rare. Total color blindness (seeing in only shades of gray) is extremely rare.

Maybe the rules should provide for someone who is color blind to request of the RM that any penalty steel be marked with an X in cases like this.

[aztecdriver]

Just an observation from Area 6 2009 - Steel painted different colors on the same stage.

And I just realized this was from 2005? Sorry I got lost in the discussion

Edited July 10, 2011 by aztecdriver