rifle reccomendations?

[Cat]

Hi, I used to shoot .22's on my school's rifle team, but the range was closed due to lead poisoning. Anyway, long story short, I want to shoot on my own now and am trying to buy my own rifle. I know only a little about guns, and have only shot pistols a few times and rifles (.22's) for a few months. I was thinking of getting a springfield 1903 30-06, with a 4x32 scope. I was wondering if this would be a good rifle to start out with. Some questions: what would be better, wood or synthetic? do you think 30-06 might be too powerful? is a 4x32 scope powerful enough for sharpshooting? thanks a lot.

[EricW]

I've got an 03A3, and it's a heck of a leap from a 22, recoil-wise.  You can't go wrong with a Springfield, that's for sure, especially if the price is right.  You can shoot 150gr bullets (or lighter) and keep the pounding to a minimum.  You can also load up 220's and feel mighty confident about nailing an elk.  30-06 is the do-all cartridge.  Scopes are highly personal things, but 4x should be just dandy for all around use.  (More important is the quality of the scope and it's mount than the power.)  My guess is that your fixed 4x is probably a decent scope and will be a fine tool.

The 03 is a great way to learn about big-bore shooting.  If you're sensitive to recoil, it may not be the best starting point.   However, you can give it a whirl and see what you think.  If money is an issue, consider another .22.  You can pick up a Ruger 10/22 for $100 new and have an absolute ball for very little dough.  

I put a sporterized Fajen stock on my Dad's 03.  It was a great learning experience for me and made the rifle fit much better.  If it hasn't been done already, I'd dump the military stock in a heartbeat.  Your rifle's already been modified, so you won't hurt it's value one bit.

Anyway, I hope this helps, and...Welcome!!!

[Carlos]

CAT - same thing happened to my HS rifle team back in 84 - we shot off campus at an NG armory for a year before the headmaster pulled the plug altogether - he hated guns. Then they fired him a few years later but the rifle program was and is history. Sad really.

Anyway, you did not say what you want to do w. the rifle - informal target practice, competition, etc.  If its competition, the AR-15 in .223 Winchester (aka 5.56mm) rules the roost; do a search on google on Glen Zediker and AR-15 and you will find a comprehensive book on highpower shooting - written by a former .30-06 and then a .308 shooter.

As for the 30-06, it is great, I have an old P-17 US made Enfield a gun that saw more action in WWII than the 1903 and it is stronger to boot. I like it, but you might consider a .308 for greater accuracy.  Look around on http://www.snipercountry.com for an article on the .308 vs the 30-06. Unless you are hunting really large game then you could do everything w/ a .308 - and have better accuracy potential as well. Ask 10 shooter what rifle to get and you'll get atr least 10 answers; tell us more about what you would like to do.  Welcome in the mean time.

Top experts do not agree.

PS - if you join USPSA (IPSC in the US) you can qualify to buy a US made, government surplus 1903 at a very reasonable price.  There should be a link to a private company called CMP/DCM that was once a part of the Gov. designed to promote civilian marksmanship. Check it out.

[jhgtyre]

The CMP site is at this link.  Look on the left side of the page for info on rifle sales.

-jhgtyre

[IPSC CHIK1]

under the DCM a USPSA member can also purchase an AR15 at a reduced price.

SharonAnne L2387

[Cat]

I think I changed my mind after talking to my ffl dealer. I know he has an agenda but I think for the same price I can get a remington 700 adl new directly from him. How is this model of rifle for sharpshooting? Also what kind of scope should I get?

[EricW]

Cat -

What's your budget for the rifle + the scope?  What range do you plan to shoot at?  Do you plan to hunt at all?  What discipline do you plan to use the rifle for?  Give us some details and someone will certainly be able to steer you in the right direction.  

Have you thought about buying used?  There are some smokin' deals out there to be had off of gun range bulletin boards.  

E

[Cat]

I am looking at a rifle just for sharpshooting at maybe 100-300 yds. My price range is $300-$500. I was thinking about buying used but those cost of shipping+taxes+FFL transfer fee pretty much negates any cost savings. My dealer can get me a remington 700 adl for about $360, and after taxes and scope it will end up being a little less then $500. I wouldn't be surprised if he was trying to rip me off though.

[EricW]

Cat,

You're going to have a bit a time trying to find a quality scope and mount for $140.  I've seen many many setups sold privately for about the $500 mark that would fit what you're looking for.  Most hunting rifles don't get shot more than a couple hundred rounds in their lives and are often an excellent bargain.  Are private transfers illegal in PA or something?  Tried looking in the classifieds at all?   Good, used deer rifles are plentiful and would seem to fit the bill for you.  Just my $.02, but you're going to hate the $100 scope you end up with pretty quickly if you go through the dealer.  

Think used.  You'll be happier in the long run.

[Cat]

I don't know anyone to privately transfer with. The dealer has some used guns but they look very low quality. The only other options would be to order one from the dealer, get one pre-setup from dick's sporting goods (dunno how they go quality wise), or buy one online at a large extra expense.

ps keep in mind that I am a beginner sharpshooter and am not looking to buy any real expensive rifle or scope or anything. just basic low-end stuff would be fine for now, I think. If I like it and want to continue on a higher level then I'll upgrade.

(Edited by Cat at 1:18 am on Dec. 13, 2002)

[gm iprod]

Cat repeat after me. Don't rush. Don't rush. Don't rush. Don't rush. Don't rush.

I work in a retail gunstore and I see many people who are in a similar dilema.

I suggest you find a club that shoots what you want to shoot, or a range that will have a few rifles available for you to try.

I suggest that you get yourself to a large gunshop, someone with at least a hundred rifles on the shelf that is well known and well respected. Tell them what you want to do and ask to see a range of rifles that will fit that. Take some brochures and LEAVE. Go home think some more. This way you can make whatever decision you make carefully and without the salesman breathing down your neck.

You may want to look around for something used, you could save up to half of the cost of a new gun but be careful. Do not buy a used scope unless it is made by Leupold, Burris and a couple of other reputable manufacturers. DO NOT BUY USED CHINESE, RUSSIIAN OR EAST EUROPEAN MADE SCOPES.

I would suggest that if you have not shot a lot of centrefire you should go with 222, 223 or 243. Maybe 308 if you feel comfortable. All of these have reasonable priced ammo available and will not kick the snot out of you. Especially 223.

The Remington 700ADL is a real good gun. They usually shoot quite good from the box with good ammo. Also look at the Winchester M70 Ranger. Both guns are aimed at the type of shooter that you seem to be. New and on a short pocket. You can always have a bedding and trigger job done as you can afford them.

Good quality optics are as, if not more, important than the rifle. Can't see it, can't hit it. I have often put a real good scope on a used rifle that is in good condition and seen it out shoot a new top end rifle with a

scope that the owner happened to have laying around the shed, because he spent too much on the rifle. I own an old Sako 243 that looks like crap on the outside but is near new inside, its been carried a lot by a deer hunter and shot no more than 20rounds a year. I paid less than $200 for this rifle (because it looked awful) and then put a Leupold VariX3 2.5-8 on it which including the Sako mounts set me back close on $500. Shoots 1.25" with Winchester 100grain factory ammo. Fine for deer. It will do better with the homeloads but I want to have it Glass Bedded first.

Look carefully and be prepared to walk away from what appears to be a good deal. Don't believe everything the man behind the counter says, he usually has a motive.

Narrow the seach carefully and if you decide on something particular check more than one source, preferrably three.

Good Luck

(Edited by gm iprod at 3:10 am on Dec. 13, 2002)

[Cat]

I think I decided to go with the rem 700 adl deluxe, as the synthetic stock ones felt really cheapy. I might just use iron sights for now and get a scope when I can afford one later The guy that runs the local gun store is very unreputible from what I've heard from many people but he is giving me a decent price on a new gun so I don't think that should matter too much. Dick's sporting goods sells some decent scopes and sets the um and sights them in for free so I'll do that later. Thanks for your help guys

[Chriss Grube]

Cat,

There are no decent gunshops in State College. The best bet for your price range is the Savage 112  Varmit or 110 tactical. They are accurate out of the box. The trigger needs work but it is usable. Go over to Clearfield and check out Bob's army and navy or Grice's. Grice's usually has a ton of used guns. Bob's has better prices on new. If you want to come East go to D and R sport's they have the best prices around. You weren't talking about that place right by 322 and college ave were you?  If so stay away. I had some "official" dealings with him when I was working out there.

[Cat]

Yes, I was referring to hunter's warehouse on atherton street (322). He is charging me $400 for the rifle, plus tax, plus two other $20 figures I think one is registration and one is shipping, and the total is about $500. I wouldn't think it would matter whom I bought a rifle from if I am buying one new and it is just being ordered from remington anway. I definately won't buy anything else there though. I could drive to clearfield but I doubt I'd save much more then the price of gas I havn't actually payed for the gun yet but he wrote me up the reciept and I was going to go give him the check this weekend. If you think it is a bad idea to buy even a new gun from him, or if you think $500 is overpriced (this is total cost), drop me a line or instant-message me

[Flexmoney]

Do you have to register rifles in PA?  Isn't shipping included in the price?

[Cat]

I'm not sure but it sounds reasonable, I checked the price for the same gun at dick's sporting goods and it was about the same.

[Chriss Grube]

Cat,

Grices had the 700 adl on sale for under 400. i think it was something like 379.

[Cat]

Yeah but is that the wood stock? It is more expensive. Also, the cost after tax, shipping, and registration I would guess would be around $500 as well, plus an extra $20 in gas to drive there and back leaves no monitary gain.

Where is grices, anyway? Do you have their number? Maybe I will call them and ask them about stuff and decide if it is worth it.

[Chriss Grube]

Cat,

The real gunshops stock these items and shipping is in the price already not some BS add on. The PICS check is not $20.00. The wood maybe a little more but not 130 bucks worth. The synthetic is lighter and is less affected be weather extremes than wood. I don't have grices number but Bob's is (814)765-4756. Sounds like you already made the deal so it is too late for you on this one. D and R has the best prices on scopes and you can order them from the website. They should save you 50-100 bucks on a scope.

[Cat]

no, I have not finalized the deal because I took iprod's advice I'll call grices and see what they offer and maybe I'll drive up there.

As for scopes, dicks sporting goods sells some at good prices and mounts them and sights them in for free, so would that be a better deal?

[Cat]

that number is definately not the number for bob's army and navy!!

[Chriss Grube]

Sorry about the wrong number I looked at the wrong list. (814) 765-4652. Get good mounts. Most places will mount and boresight for free if you buy the scope or gun from them. Never really saw decent mounts at Dick's. When did they put a Dick's in SC? I would get the number for Grices and call they usually have some used ones with scopes in your price range.

[Cat]

Well, I got it! After a driving adventure up to clearfield I went to Bob's and I got a savage 110. It was only $320. I also got a Bushnell 3x9 scope for $100 and mounts and a case and some ammo. So, weather permitting, I'll get to try it out at Scotia tomorrow Thanks for the help

[Chriss Grube]

No problem. They didn't screw up the range with I-99 coming through did they? That is probably the nicest Game commission range in the state.

[Cat]

nope, scotia is still there. if it wasn't, I wouldn't buy a gun, because I wouldn't have anywhere to shoot.