RO Responsibilities and Squad Participation

[Robco]

We have many shooters come through our club from many different countries and English is not their first language or they have memorized the range commands in the book and that's about it. It's real important to stick with what's in the book or get strange looks or end up DQ'ing someone.

I think if you are not using the correct commands, you'll have a tough time selling a command-related dq to me. If you point to the start position and tell the shooter "get in here and get ready" and he pulls out his gun, it would be a total dick move to dq him. Of course a smart and experienced and cynical shooter would look at you say 'I don't understand you, please use legal range commands'.

I'm especially concerned with this when the start position involves staging mags and gun on barrels. It's easy to have a misunderstanding if you use anything accept 'make ready'.

Since I started shooting again (and most recently at Rio- haven't figured out who Mark is yet), I can say I have witnessed a few foreign shooters in the last couple of weeks that have such a language barrier.

They seem to know just enough to probably get by in the workplace (most likely mine), and are sometimes confused by straight forward/proper commands. Some can't even operate their speed holsters correctly (saw this last night).

So far I have yet to have an RO at Rio give incorrect commands before, during, or after I complete a stage.

Superslowmo, I shot the Tuesday night steel match at Rio yesterday too. Just spent a month in Mesa, staying at the Gold Canyon RV and Golf resort, right near you apparently!

Rio people are great. I have shot perhaps 25 matches there in Dec and March, so know a lot of new friends now. There are a lot of older guys there, and young ones too. Many don't seem to participate in the USPSA matches there though. 200+ shooters every Tuesday for the steel match. But only 100 on any of the USPSA club matches on weekends. So I think that contributes to the situation of some not being up-to-date on the current commands and rules. They may have learned them 10 or more years ago, and never got the memo on changes! Overall, I am impressed by the quality of RO participation at Rio. In fact the Match Director recently announced that since there are so many new shooters, that they prefer the more experienced ROs run the clock, indicating a general concern from the management.

Just like with the shooting itself, once you learn the right way to do things, you will readily notice when others are not. Same with RO-ing. Just be aware, and learn and get experience and have fun.

[Robco]

Apparently you are reading a lot more into my post than is there.

Correct. my bad. You make many constructive points.

I think it's particularly important to stick to the range commands and correct procedures when you have a table start. We had a situation come up over the weekend where a new RO told the shooter on the line to go ahead and stage his magazines. Shooter interpreted that as make ready and staged his gun too. RO called it a dq. We ended up overruling it due to improper range commands and used it as a teaching moment for RO's and shooters both. Don't say anything that could possibly be interpreted as make ready except make ready. For shooters, don't make ready until you are SURE you have heard make ready. If you hear anything else, ask for clarification and for the correct range command.

I have to say tho, that I don't let any RO imperfections affect my shooting. It's just going to happen, so let it wash off you like beer off a duck's back.

No problem.

We need to also bear in mind that HEARING capabilities are different with individuals. Some are completely deaf, and that presents a whole different level of competence required of the RO. But MANY shooters are hard of hearing. And all of us have diminished hearing due to ear protection. So varying from familiar command language and practices, makes misunderstandings much more likely.

A lot of interesting info has come from all contributors in this thread!

[Robco]

the week before the Nationals I was shooting a local match at the same club. A guy on my squad said he'd RO just as long as he didn't have to do it all day since he really wasn't that experienced. I also jumped in to help throughout the day. He was somewhat unknowledgable about the specific commands and on two ocassions I just stopped before the timer went off and said those wern't the actual corrcet commands, told him what they should be and then we reset and proceeded. They were not really close to the actual commands so I thought it was important to stop & correct the situtation immediately ....

Yep. You were TEACHING the guy the right way to do RO-ing. It would have been easier to tolerate his mistakes and not make waves. But you chose, instead, to help this guy learn how to be a better RO. Cool!

[Robco]

the week before the Nationals I was shooting a local match at the same club. A guy on my squad said he'd RO just as long as he didn't have to do it all day since he really wasn't that experienced. I also jumped in to help throughout the day. He was somewhat unknowledgable about the specific commands and on two ocassions I just stopped before the timer went off and said those wern't the actual corrcet commands, told him what they should be and then we reset and proceeded. They were not really close to the actual commands so I thought it was important to stop & correct the situtation immediately ....

Yep. You were TEACHING the guy the right way to do RO-ing. It would have been easier to tolerate his mistakes and not make waves. But you chose, instead, to help this guy learn how to be a better RO. Cool!

[lstone]

This has been a very interesting and informative read for me. I will be taking the RO class this weekend and it will be taught bt Troy McManus. I'm sure that it will be interesting to hear what he might say about it. I thank the OP for starting this. I have been Blessed to have a local club that takes new shooters and get them excited about USPSA. I got into the Sport late but have embraced it. Taking the RO class allows me to give back what I get out of this sport. From the beginning safety was paramount at our club match. The video I hope awakens that sometimes we get complacent in our responsibilities. Complacency can lead to tragedy.

[Robco]

This has been a very interesting and informative read for me. I will be taking the RO class this weekend and it will be taught bt Troy McManus. I'm sure that it will be interesting to hear what he might say about it. I thank the OP for starting this. I have been Blessed to have a local club that takes new shooters and get them excited about USPSA. I got into the Sport late but have embraced it. Taking the RO class allows me to give back what I get out of this sport. From the beginning safety was paramount at our club match. The video I hope awakens that sometimes we get complacent in our responsibilities. Complacency can lead to tragedy.

Great! Ask Troy how he feels about ROs saying "Range is going hot." Print out the post and take it with you and refer to it in the course, it will help a lot of folks. Something for the practice of ROing, beyond the rules and basics! You have a great attitude towards our sport and all of this. Don't let anyone spoil that or change you. Thanks

Below (attached as both a .jpg and a .pdf file) is a letter from Troy regarding the incident in the video of a shooter downrange while live fire was in progress on the stage. This letter is from the USPSA website.

Troy Letter about video of shooter downrange.pdf

Edited March 27, 2015 by Robco

[lstone]

I did read the letter he sent from the USPSA site. And I will Print out most of this thread thank you for the permission. And will post after the class Saturday or Sunday, it is 2 days for the course. Again thank you for the thread it is informative.

[Jmob50]

This is a larger issue with L-2 and above matches. Communicate with the squad to ensure as part of the stage briefing that you detail the order the targets will be scored and what if any props will be reset by the shooters and which if any will be set by one of the RO's. This will cut down on reshoots due to a target getting pasted early, or a prop not being reset properly.

Good one. Everyone knows that re-shoots usually do not go well for a shooter.

Ive never seen a reshoot go better than the initial run either, why is that i wonder. You'd think it wouldnt be that way

[Robco]

This is a larger issue with L-2 and above matches. Communicate with the squad to ensure as part of the stage briefing that you detail the order the targets will be scored and what if any props will be reset by the shooters and which if any will be set by one of the RO's. This will cut down on reshoots due to a target getting pasted early, or a prop not being reset properly.

Good one. Everyone knows that re-shoots usually do not go well for a shooter.

Ive never seen a reshoot go better than the initial run either, why is that i wonder. You'd think it wouldnt be that way

Of course is an individual issue, but I would say that most people 1) let their level of attention and focus DOWN for the reshoot - hard to stay up the whole first time, let alone again and 2) Familiarity breeds a false sense of confidence. - people think they can go faster on the reshoot because they just had a practice run on it.

If a shooter is really in control of his mental game, the reshoot should be better or at least as good as the initial run. But how many shooters are in control of their mental game?

A perfect example of how a reshoot often DOES go better for a smart, in-control shooter, is if they had a penalty or miss or brain fart on the first run, and get a second chance due to a reshoot. They can tell themselves this is a second chance, and SLOW DOWN and not make any mistakes this time and it will be a much higher score. And they have the discipline to execute on this decision. I have done that several times myself, and seen it MANY times with other shooters.

What really sucks is when a good shooter has a near "perfect" run, and somebody tapes a target prematurely. That can really upset a shooter and make a successful reshoot much more difficult.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Robco

[Jmob50]

This is a larger issue with L-2 and above matches. Communicate with the squad to ensure as part of the stage briefing that you detail the order the targets will be scored and what if any props will be reset by the shooters and which if any will be set by one of the RO's. This will cut down on reshoots due to a target getting pasted early, or a prop not being reset properly.

Good one. Everyone knows that re-shoots usually do not go well for a shooter.

Ive never seen a reshoot go better than the initial run either, why is that i wonder. You'd think it wouldnt be that way

Of course is an individual issue, but I would say that most people 1) let their level of attention and focus DOWN for the reshoot - hard to stay up the whole first time, let alone again and 2) Familiarity breeds a false sense of confidence. - people think they can go faster on the reshoot because they just had a practice run on it.

If a shooter is really in control of his mental game, the reshoot should be better or at least as good as the initial run. But how many shooters are in control of their mental game?

A perfect example of how a reshoot often DOES go better for a smart, in-control shooter, is if they had a penalty or miss or brain fart on the first run, and get a second chance due to a reshoot. They can tell themselves this is a second chance, and SLOW DOWN and not make any mistakes this time and it will be a much higher score. And they have the discipline to execute on this decision. I have done that several times myself, and seen it MANY times with other shooters.

What really sucks is when a good shooter has a near "perfect" run, and somebody tapes a target prematurely. That can really upset a shooter and make a successful reshoot much more difficult.

Admittedly I've been the culprit of taping too early and felt terrible until the shooter ran the identical run and he was really cool about it the entire time

[Robco]

This is a larger issue with L-2 and above matches. Communicate with the squad to ensure as part of the stage briefing that you detail the order the targets will be scored and what if any props will be reset by the shooters and which if any will be set by one of the RO's. This will cut down on reshoots due to a target getting pasted early, or a prop not being reset properly.

Good one. Everyone knows that re-shoots usually do not go well for a shooter.

Ive never seen a reshoot go better than the initial run either, why is that i wonder. You'd think it wouldnt be that way

Of course is an individual issue, but I would say that most people 1) let their level of attention and focus DOWN for the reshoot - hard to stay up the whole first time, let alone again and 2) Familiarity breeds a false sense of confidence. - people think they can go faster on the reshoot because they just had a practice run on it.

If a shooter is really in control of his mental game, the reshoot should be better or at least as good as the initial run. But how many shooters are in control of their mental game?

A perfect example of how a reshoot often DOES go better for a smart, in-control shooter, is if they had a penalty or miss or brain fart on the first run, and get a second chance due to a reshoot. They can tell themselves this is a second chance, and SLOW DOWN and not make any mistakes this time and it will be a much higher score. And they have the discipline to execute on this decision. I have done that several times myself, and seen it MANY times with other shooters.

What really sucks is when a good shooter has a near "perfect" run, and somebody tapes a target prematurely. That can really upset a shooter and make a successful reshoot much more difficult.

Admittedly I've been the culprit of taping too early and felt terrible until the shooter ran the identical run and he was really cool about it the entire time

No sweat, at least you were out there working the stage instead of sitting on your ass watching!

[ano]

we had an incident last match, RO put timer on his back before last shot, last shot was 2-3 seconds after the 2nd last.. and should have upped time from 14 to 16-17...sooo reshoot!

on reshoot, hooter DQ'ed,

I felt bad for him, but.. failure to keep finger outside is a pretty darn easy one, I mean the whole squad, every official in a mile radius saw it..

[Poppa Bear]

This is a larger issue with L-2 and above matches. Communicate with the squad to ensure as part of the stage briefing that you detail the order the targets will be scored and what if any props will be reset by the shooters and which if any will be set by one of the RO's. This will cut down on reshoots due to a target getting pasted early, or a prop not being reset properly.

Good one. Everyone knows that re-shoots usually do not go well for a shooter.

Ive never seen a reshoot go better than the initial run either, why is that i wonder. You'd think it wouldnt be that way

Of course is an individual issue, but I would say that most people 1) let their level of attention and focus DOWN for the reshoot - hard to stay up the whole first time, let alone again and 2) Familiarity breeds a false sense of confidence. - people think they can go faster on the reshoot because they just had a practice run on it.

If a shooter is really in control of his mental game, the reshoot should be better or at least as good as the initial run. But how many shooters are in control of their mental game?

A perfect example of how a reshoot often DOES go better for a smart, in-control shooter, is if they had a penalty or miss or brain fart on the first run, and get a second chance due to a reshoot. They can tell themselves this is a second chance, and SLOW DOWN and not make any mistakes this time and it will be a much higher score. And they have the discipline to execute on this decision. I have done that several times myself, and seen it MANY times with other shooters.

What really sucks is when a good shooter has a near "perfect" run, and somebody tapes a target prematurely. That can really upset a shooter and make a successful reshoot much more difficult.

Admittedly I've been the culprit of taping too early and felt terrible until the shooter ran the identical run and he was really cool about it the entire time

I got a reshoot for that very reason several years ago and took about 7 seconds off my time and had better hits. The stage required a bit of retreating and I ran into one of the barrels that was behind me because I did not come straight back before I made the corner. That threw off the rest of the stage. I was shaking my head with a that sucked feeling when the RO came across a target that had already been pasted. My squad mate fessed up stating that he thought it was one that the timer RO had scored while waiting for me to retreat out of the hole.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Poppa Bear

[Robco]

This is a larger issue with L-2 and above matches. Communicate with the squad to ensure as part of the stage briefing that you detail the order the targets will be scored and what if any props will be reset by the shooters and which if any will be set by one of the RO's. This will cut down on reshoots due to a target getting pasted early, or a prop not being reset properly.

Good one. Everyone knows that re-shoots usually do not go well for a shooter.

Ive never seen a reshoot go better than the initial run either, why is that i wonder. You'd think it wouldnt be that way

Of course is an individual issue, but I would say that most people 1) let their level of attention and focus DOWN for the reshoot - hard to stay up the whole first time, let alone again and 2) Familiarity breeds a false sense of confidence. - people think they can go faster on the reshoot because they just had a practice run on it.

If a shooter is really in control of his mental game, the reshoot should be better or at least as good as the initial run. But how many shooters are in control of their mental game?

A perfect example of how a reshoot often DOES go better for a smart, in-control shooter, is if they had a penalty or miss or brain fart on the first run, and get a second chance due to a reshoot. They can tell themselves this is a second chance, and SLOW DOWN and not make any mistakes this time and it will be a much higher score. And they have the discipline to execute on this decision. I have done that several times myself, and seen it MANY times with other shooters.

What really sucks is when a good shooter has a near "perfect" run, and somebody tapes a target prematurely. That can really upset a shooter and make a successful reshoot much more difficult.

Admittedly I've been the culprit of taping too early and felt terrible until the shooter ran the identical run and he was really cool about it the entire time

I got a reshoot for that very reason several years ago and took about 7 seconds off my time and had better hits. The stage required a bit of retreating and I ran into one of the barrels that was behind me because I did not come straight back before I made the corner. That threw off the rest of the stage. I was shaking my head with a that sucked feeling when the RO came across a target that had already been pasted. My squad mare fessed up stating that he thought it was one that the timer RO had scored while waiting for me to retreat out of the hole.

Got to get me a squad "mare" like that!

[Poppa Bear]

Got to get me a squad "mare" like that!

Good catch