ede Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 S&W 686 age and round count unknown, newer MIM gun w/lock. Dry fired it a few time the other nite and discovered the firing pin was stuck forward. I figured the spring broke or other wise not working correctly. Ended up putting a new FP in and fixed the problem. Old FP looked good, no burrs or anything I could see so I swapped it back. Same results as before so I swapped the new FP back in and it ran 100% dry firing. Why did it do this? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Is this a stock SW pin or some piece of aftermarket junk somebody put in? Some of the aftermarket (extended) firing pins I got a while back also seized up in the firing pin channel because they had casting flash on them. Poorly made, no quality control. Does your "problem" pin have a bent tip? FYI, if it is an extended FP, dry firing without snap caps can damage it. Edited January 13, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ed, this is the exact thing I discovered with your 617--the aftermarket (C&S) firing pin was sticking forward in its channel so far it was dragging on the extractor ratchet. I fixed that problem by replacing the C&S pin with a "good" stock S&W pin that measured around .495". I then placed the C&S pin right where it belongs--in the trash can. I recommend you do the same with your 686. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) You can not dry fire C&S pins without snap caps or at least some old cases. Edited January 14, 2015 by Gregg K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azfred Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 good to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I don't use snap caps with my C&S firing pin. That said, I don't dry fire for hours on end. I bet I have a couple thousand dry fire clicks on mine though. If I was selling firing pins, I'd put that same warning on my packaging. I'd design it to handle a reasonable amount of dry firing, but I wouldn't want to warranty one to the kid who snaps the thing over and over all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The problem with a C&S pin is that the cross pin that retains the pin will not restrict it's forward movement as it does a stock pin. Without snap caps or a cartridge the C&S pins forward movement is only stopped when the firing pin spring collapses and then impacts the rear of the firing pin bushing. Impacting the back of the bushing will eventually break the pin or beat the bushing loose, I know. If you push a stock pin forward until it stops you will feel it pushing on the retaining pin if you pull on it, you will not with the C&S pin. While I have my issues with C&S as a company due to some very poor customer service I have to be honest that their pin works very well when used as directed. The warning not to dry fire without snap caps is not just CYA, it's due to the design of the pin and the issue I have explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Believe it was a S&W firing pin but not 100% sure. I replaced it with an extended pin since that was all I had. The length of the bad pin was shorter than the aftermarket replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 C&S pins will break with ( and without ) snap caps during dryfire. I think i've probably broken at 3 or 4 this past season alone, I've been migrating to the Apex pins which I have yet to break. I think ( maybe it might just be in my head ) you can achieve light D/A weight results using the C&S , but the Apex has been more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I have broke them all, C&S, factory S&W and Apex. I know that it's a part that is likely to break sooner or later so a week before one of the big matches I'll install a new pin. I really doubt that anyone is going to give me a reshoot if I break one so I try to have a fresh one for the big matches. The old C&S pins broke pretty often but the newer style ones have been great but I do not drop the hammer without something in the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) You can not dry fire C&S pins without snap caps or at least some old cases. That's why I included the warning in my post. But I would also add: even if you use snap caps (or don't dry fire at all), those FP's are prone to breaking at least the ones I got. I agree with carmoney and I did the same thing with mine: garbage can. IMHO, the extended pin is a solution to a problem that does not exist. If you have a good .495 SW pin, extending it does not improve ignition at least it did not on both of the 66 guns I tested them on. That was the specific reason I bought them (to get lower DA pull weight) and they did not improve it. Edited January 15, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canvsbk Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 From the factory my 686ssr had a .491 pin in it. The strain screw was cross threaded in. The cylinder to barrel gap was .015. The C&S firing pin has worked fine for many thousands of rounds but as they suggest I only dry fire with snap caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) From the factory my 686ssr had a .491 pin in it. The strain screw was cross threaded in. The cylinder to barrel gap was .015. The C&S firing pin has worked fine for many thousands of rounds but as they suggest I only dry fire with snap caps. Sounds like something from the custom shop..... IMHO, those .491 pins are the reason some people saw improvement using extended pins. Correct length is .495, non existent QC in piece parts. There are other defects that are probably improved by an XFP like excessive cylinder end shake or breech to cylinder gap excessive.. Edited January 15, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 IMHO, those .491 pins are the reason some people saw improvement using extended pins. Correct length is .495, non existent QC in piece parts. I agree completely. If you can find a stock pin with the round tip that measures .495" (give or take a thousandth), you cannot improve on it with anybody's aftermarket pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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