SWHlctx Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm having a key hole issue with my 9c that I think is a gun problem. At the range the other day I would get 2-3 key hole hits from each mag fired. I was using Freedom factory 9mm ammo. Also using full sized mags with X grip on the 9c. I switched to my M&P Pro 9 and didn't have any key hole hits with the Freedom ammo. Went back to the 9c and changed ammo to some hand loaded 9mm. Same thing.... 2-3 key hole hits per mag. Only other ammo I had with me was some LRN 135g 9mm. Tried it and still got key hole hits. I then went back to my Pro 9 with the other ammo and didn't have any problems. I have a hard time believing I'm doing something different with my grip on the 9c. All the hits were in the 0 or head other than a few of the key hole hits that were slightly off probably due to trajectory. Has anyone had issues with their 9c or have some ideas on what I can look for? SWH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Unlikely it's a gun PROBLEM. A compatibility problem between your reloads and the short barrel. Yes, I consider freedom munitions as reloads. First thing if would do is run a mag of good quality factory ammo through it and see if it still does it. Good self defense ammo is what I would try. If that tumbles then there might be some crown damage on the barrel. Do you have a chrono? It would help a lot to know velocity of the loads you tried. Ammo related tumbling usually boils down to adjusting crimp both ways or upping the charge, shortening/lengthening oal etc. That short little barrel won't produce much speed so I would try hotter good quality ammo first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 That's it, short barrel and you are not getting enough velocity for the bullet weight. My Compact is quite accurate but originally my target loads would not cycle the gun consistently. Another half grain of powder and all is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWHlctx Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Thanks, I appreciate the responses. Makes sense. I forgot to mention I was shooting 147g. I'm not a reloader (yet), so I'll hunt down some 115g and 124g to see if there still an issue. Sarge, why would the self defense ammo be a better test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Just hotter. The 147 bullet is the problem I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 FWIW, I recently picked up another 9C and it put up some terrible (not even on paper) groups with Freedom 124gr reloads. I switched to CCI Blazer Brass, Federal, and Fiocchi 115gr and the gun grouped fine. I have a few guns that do not seem to like the Freedom reloads and I've had an unfortunate number of dud rounds in the last few thousands rounds I purchased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Yup, 147 in a short barrel and you are asking for stability problems. Don't forget the pre ~2013 S&W barrels had a twist of one in 6 yards so that doesn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) Most of the 147 grain 9mm bullets have some sort of boat-tail shape in back, in order to not stretch the thicker (tapered cross-section) brass that's further back in the case. The ones that don't have some risk of either stretching the brass or compressing the base of the bullet; either bullet type can be a problem for stability of the bullet in flight; either problem will show up sooner & worse in a short barrel. Just a guess, the 124's might be the largest bullet your 9c can shoot accurately (with the right spin) or maybe you can go no bigger than 115s. Either way, look at the crown of your barrel. If it's gunked up with carbon or lead deposits, clean it off; that may help with some if not all your different ammo types. Edited November 1, 2014 by eric nielsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash74 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I think everyone else hit the nail on the head with the heavy bullet in the 9c. Especially if it is older with the slow twist rate. One other item is the Freedom reloads. If you have not pulled a bullet from one of their reloads, try it. I got very deep marks on their plated bullets. They are crimping the crap out of their rounds. Dont get me wrong, I like Freedom and have had good luck with their products in 9 and 40, but noticed their crimp when I pulled a bunch of 40 to download them. (I am a recoil wimp, 165.001 PF for me) After seeing how bad the 40 bullets were, I pulled a couple of the 9mm I had and the same thing, a very heavy crimp. I reloaded the heavily crimped 40 bullets and had some accuracy issues. It was relegated to practice ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWHlctx Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Yep, looks like it is an ammo problem. I found some Speer 124g JHP (Duty Ammo?) I'd stuck away. Shot about 150 rounds out of the 9c. No key holes, no problems of any kind. Went back to the 147g and had 3 key holes out of one mag. Went back to the Speer and again no problems. Also, as someone pointed out above, this is an older model (pre 2010) with the old style barrel. It was one of those deals you can't pass up. I bought it from a guy that bought it new to get his CHL in 2010. He shot the required 50 rounds and never shot the gun again. Paid $350 for it because it was "old". Appreicate the help pointing me in the right direction. SWH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Glad you got it figured out. Great bunch here on enos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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