hcf1976 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Has anyone used this and if so is it close to the same as TiteGroup as they say and does it meter well?? and is it very dirty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0kawn Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I've done some testing in .40 minor and 9mm. The 147gr Berry's plated 9mm were excellent! The .40 loaded to minor velocity under 165gr Berry's was too inconsistent with the large amount of empty case. Once the case was filled up, it became much more consistent, dropping from 200fps es to <30, before opening back up again. I did not try working any of it up at major velocity on purpose, though I did hit major at the hottest load. Here's a copy/paste of what my findings were on a local forum: Foreward:Without much in the way of published load data for this proprietary powder, I began with charges significantly lighter than what Expansion Industries listed on their facebook page, which are quite diluted and non-specific.Also, my goals and requirements in hand loading are catered towards shooting USPSA competitions. Currently I am shooting a Tanfoglio Stock II, .40S&W caliber in the Production division. Production division requires a minimum Power Factor of 125, which is determined by Velocity x Bullet Weight in grains / 1000. Using 165gr Berry's plated bullets, I need a minimum of 757fps. Recently I've switch from 180gr projectiles to 165gr to get a higher velocity at comparable power factor for minimum recoil/muzzle rise. My desired velocity that I'm aiming to achieve before larger batch testing is 850-875 for a faster cycling slide as compared to the 180gr at around 750fps I have been using.As with the majority of powders, I discovered Expansion Industries's ETR7 to be inconsistent at very light loads. At 3.3gr, the slide failed to cycle completely 50% of the time, while also having a huge swing in velocity. I did not achieve satisfactory extreme spreads in velocity until 4.5gr and heavier.Overall thoughts so far in testing:Burns considerably cleaner than my current two primary powders, Hodgdon Titegroup and Winchester WST. Where both TG and WST leave significant residue in the chamber and on the forward 2” of dust cover closest to the muzzle, the ETR7 left only a slight light yellow hue on the first 1/4” of the dust cover. Further testing is needed on higher round counts as only about 100 rounds were shot today in total.Muzzle rise/felt recoil seems comparable to Titegroup. Next I will be loading 200 rounds at 4.4/4.5gr to test the feel and comfort very soon.40s&w chrono180gr Polymer Coated Lead Bayou Bullet, 3.1gr Hodgdon TiteGroup, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. Used as a base load for desired power factor and “feel”.740741764767762777766774739757 avg38 es14 sd136.2 pf165gr Berry's plated flat point, 3.3gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.533529652590540622559540655446556 avg209 es64 sd165gr Berry's, 3.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.625616646705638678573629628641637 avg132 es35 sd165gr Berry's, 3.7gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.759738659679729705665751650723705 avg109 es40 sd165gr Berry's, 4.0gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.775739726742738739782689777735744 avg93 es27 sd122 pf165gr Berry's, 4.2gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.752784773791797770756761854761806782 avg102 es29 sd129 pf165gr Berry's, 4.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.885870868899875889841858890862873 avg58 es17 sd144 pf165gr Berry's, 4.75gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.904883897902904900905906924920904 avg41 es11 sd149 pf165gr Berry's, 5.0gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.901958958921911944934955946946919933 avg57 es19 sd153pf165gr Berry's, 5.25gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.983976980969977998994977981 avg29 es9 sd161pf165gr Berry's, 5.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.9731008996990101310021045102510151007 avg72 es20 sd166 pf_____________________________________ _____________________________________ I did a bit more testing today with this powder and have mixed results to report.Continuing with the .40s&w from yesterday, I loaded 200 rounds of 165gr Berry's flat point bullets over 4.4 grains of ETR7 for some accuracy and perceived recoil testing. To start with, I shot 3 sets of 10 rounds over the chronograph.4.4gr ETR7851855786843836859844829810864837 avg78 es24 sd138pf4.4gr ETR7845794794842804864811868802761818 avg107 es34 sd134.9 pf4.4gr ETR7847786852794827866854896887767837 avg129 es43 sd138 pfAs you all can see, I'm not getting consistent velocity with this powder. Just to confirm function of the chrono, I ran 5 rounds of my tried-and-true 180gr Bayou Bullet over 3.1gr of TiteGroup:Overcast 40swBayou 180, 3.1 tg76973174473173674238 es15 sd133.5 pfThe extreme spread of the ETR7 was more than doubled (or higher) than the Titegroup.On the positive, this load felt great in hand. I ran the remaining 170 rounds thru the gun doing various drills to help quantify my findings and thoughts versus the 180gr bullet load I have been shooting. The gun is considerably faster cycling as expected. The sight lift is very predictable - faster than before. I'm not waiting for the slide/sight to return to break the next shot as before. The dustcover, rails and ejection port of my Tanfoglio was left considerably cleaner than when shooting Titegroup, with less gunky gelatinous build up.I also tested some load work ups using 147gr Berry's 9mm today. I will say that this powder appears to be very well suited to 9mm, producing a much more consistent velocity and was extremely soft shooting. At this point, I plan to batch test another 200 rounds loaded with 3.6-3.7 grains of ETR7 for more input, but I feel that this may replace the 3.4gr of TiteGroup I have been using for my 3gun pistol load.Here's the results for your consideration:Smith and Wesson M&P Pro 5"147gr Berry's Flatpoint 9mmExpansion Industries ETR7 powder3.0gr811788796799800798776796794761791 avg50 es14 sd116 pf3.25gr823847839839840828841840829834 avg24 es8 sd122.6 pf3.5gr870869861860850874877855877853865 avg24 es8 sd127.1pf3.75gr917897913919900903939903900909 avg36 es11 sd133 pf4.0gr955960968951969937956 avg32 es11 sd140.5 pf Here are my original posts about it, along with a couple other guys findings: http://www.vaguntrad.../topics/769637/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcf1976 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Wow you r serious about it haha. Thanks I was considering ordering some of it but they only offer it in 4lbs and hated to buy that much and not like it. How does it meter looks like very large flakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Here is their web site: http://www.expansion-industries.com/ETR7-PISTOL-POWDER-p/etr7-4lb.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0kawn Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Meters fine in the Dillon powder bars, no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I have been using it with 9 mm guns. I have a S&W M&P 9 and a Ruger SR9c. With Frontier 124gr CMJ and Berry's 124gr. FMJ, I began using the loads that they published on their site and paperwork, but that did not work very well at all. In order to get the S&W M&P 9 to work and cycle properly, I have had to increase the powder load to 4.6gr. The Ruger SR9c works OK with 4.3gr, but not any lower. I am about to change to Berry's 115gr. FMJ, and will have to start guessing all over again. I wish they had more extensive load data available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingdog Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Since the loading data provided by Expansion Industries is so uninformative (how does a powder company not give even a test barrel length or velocity for their charges), I figured I'd include the data I gathered so far for ETR7 as well. I have noticed that, where our bullets and charges overlap, I got noticeably higher avg velocity than the OP did with his loads. No idea if that's temperature related or entirely from being different barrels.All data collected with a CED M2 chronograph9mm 124g Berry's plated RN, OAL 1.152", 59F, ETR7, Federal small pistol primer, CZ75 SP01ETR7 3.8gAvg 979fps, 121.4PFSD 8.6ES 25ETR 4.0gAvg 1024fps, 126.9PFSD 11.0ES 30ETR 4.3gAvg 1059fps, 129.9PFSD 9.4ES 2640S&W 180g Berry's plated FP, OAL 1.120", 59F, ETR7, Winchester small pistol primer, G35 with Lone Wolf .40 barrelETR 4.6gAvg 921fps, 165.7PFSD 13ES 36ETR 4.8gAvg 937fps, 168.6PFSD 12ES 45.45 ACP 200g Berry's plated FP, OAL 1.120", 59F, ETR7, Federal large pistol primer, Springfield 1911 w/5" barrelETR 4.8gAvg 661fps, 132.1PFSD 35ES 90ETR 5.0gAvg 736fps, 147.1PFSD 35ES 98ETR 5.3gAvg 772fps, 154.3PFSD 22ES 53ETR 5.55gAvg 822fps, 164.3PFSD 10ES 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpa5oh Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 $100 for 4 lbs is expensive, no? Haven't bought powder in a while, but I think I was getting 8 lbs of WST for less than $150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 $100 for 4 lbs is expensive, no? Haven't bought powder in a while, but I think I was getting 8 lbs of WST for less than $150. Yeah. 8lbs of Promo is still just a little over $100...if you can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingdog Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The only way I've managed to get any powder in the last two years is catching something available on Powder Valley, buying 24-32 pounds of it to spread out the hazmat and shipping, and then reselling 8-16 to friends. For those who either can't afford to sink $500-$700 on an order, or have had no luck finding powder, $25/pound beats having nothing. I picked up 4# of this just to find something that I can use for practice ammo and conserve the stuff I use for matches. Is it my first choice, or even my second? Not a chance. But I figured I"d at least share the data I have so far since their load data is so lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pen25 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 wonder how it is compared to csb5. some suspect that is what this is just relabeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcf1976 Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 http://www.expansion-industries.com/ETR7-PISTOL-POWDER-p/etr7-4lb.htm. Overstock Price $60 FOR 4LBS.. EVERYONE CHECK IT OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcf1976 Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 The only way I've managed to get any powder in the last two years is catching something available on Powder Valley, buying 24-32 pounds of it to spread out. the hazmat and shipping, and then reselling 8-16 to friends. For those who either can't afford to sink $500-$700 on an order, or have had no luck finding powder, $25/pound beats having nothing. I picked up 4# of this just to find something that I can use for practice ammo and conserve the stuff I use for matches. Is it my first choice, or even my second? Not a chance. But I figured I"d at least share the data I have so far since their load data is so lacking. I've been loading this powder in 40cal and I'm very pleased with it and how clean it is I'm sold on it for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmexicocrawler Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'll try it after the price comes down at least one more step.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Powder is on sale now... $60 per 4 lbs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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