steel recal?

[theogre]

Scenario is: you shot a steel stage, all steel down but 1, you see good solid hit, so you call for recal. The md shoots it 3 ft closer then where you engaged it. Steel does not fall. What happens next? Do you have to reshoot or can u take your time? Does the md have to shoot it from where you did?

[blind bat]

Must reshoot. Steel is calibrated from the spot as near as possible to where the shooter fired the shot. See appendix C1 of the rule book.

If I recall the RO class correctly, the only time a reshoot is optional would be in cases of RO interference.

Edited September 9, 2014 by blind bat

[gng4life]

Close as possible to where the shooter was. You must reshoot it if calibration fails, no choice.

[Thomas H]

Scenario is: you shot a steel stage, all steel down but 1, you see good solid hit, so you call for recal. The md shoots it 3 ft closer then where you engaged it. Steel does not fall. What happens next? Do you have to reshoot or can u take your time? Does the md have to shoot it from where you did?

That's actually a couple of different (but related) questions, really.

RM shot it, and it didn't fall. Therefore, automatic reshoot. (Appendix C1.7.b )

HOWEVER, since he shot at it and hit it from a different place than where you shot it (as long as he could have actually shot it from where you shot it), it is ALSO an automatic reshoot, because it wasn't from the proper position AND any hit on it means they can't shoot it again---whether it fell or not. (They don't get multiple calibration shots.) If he had shot and missed, then the RM could shoot at it again (and hopefully hit it) from the proper position. Appendix C1.7 says "...MUST perform a calibration test of the subject popper from as near as possible to the point where the competitor shot the popper."

I note that if it wouldn't fall from a shot performed closer, it shouldn't fall from a shot performed from farther away.

No matter what, automatic reshoot.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Thomas H

[gng4life]

The shot must fired from as near as possible, it doesn't say exact spot. Besides, why wouldn't they shoot from the closest spot? What if they shoot further away to give you the advantage, do you still challenge it or go to arbitration? Also, who do you go by for location, the RO or the shooter?

[Thomas H]

The shot must fired from as near as possible, it doesn't say exact spot. Besides, why wouldn't they shoot from the closest spot? What if they shoot further away to give you the advantage, do you still challenge it or go to arbitration? Also, who do you go by for location, the RO or the shooter?

As near as possible is pretty clear. If the area is clear, and the RM is standing several feet away from the spot, then it isn't as near as possible. If it was a weird port or something, and the RM stands differently (in a different place, for example, with one foot ouside a fault line) but shooting from the same position at the same angle, then it IS as near as possible. If they shoot from further away, then the RO isn't doing his job and didn't give the RM the correct information. (I'll note I've never seen that happen, though of course it could.) You can certainly take it to arbitration, but I'm betting you'll lose as long as the angle to the popper stayed the same, and the only difference was additional length. That would be up to the arbitration committee, obviously.

And they don't shoot from the closest spot, because that's not what the rule says.

As for location, all of the times I've seen, the RO and the shooter agreed. In times of disagreement, I'm pretty sure the RM, RO, and shooter will work it out. (Pretty sure the RO call will stand, if absolute disagreement needs to be ruled upon.)

Main point: if the calibration shot is taken from a distance that is obviously closer to the popper than the original shot, and it hits the steel, then you are going to get a reshoot out of that. If it is farther, I'm betting you'd lose in arbitration, but maybe the RM will rule a reshoot due to finding out later it wasn't taken from the correct position. Who knows?

[gng4life]

I would think that "near as possible" means to get as close as possible to the original spot, meaning it's just a good estimation of the spot. It sounds like you are saying to get as close as possible due to obstacles or things in the way. See how this can be interrupted different ways? I am sure we both are right but even simple things have multiple meanings.

[gng4life]

When I said, "close as possible", I meant as close as possible to the original spot.

[theogre]

Thanks all for the info.

[EkuJustice]

If you wanted your time you shouldn't have called for calibration. Once you call for calibration and the target is hit and dosent go down it's a mandatory reshoot. You could have just taken your mike if you were happy with your time and not called for calibration

[JayWord]

The shot must fired from as near as possible, it doesn't say exact spot. Besides, why wouldn't they shoot from the closest spot? What if they shoot further away to give you the advantage, do you still challenge it or go to arbitration? Also, who do you go by for location, the RO or the shooter?

As near as possible is pretty clear. If the area is clear, and the RM is standing several feet away from the spot, then it isn't as near as possible. If it was a weird port or something, and the RM stands differently (in a different place, for example, with one foot ouside a fault line) but shooting from the same position at the same angle, then it IS as near as possible. If they shoot from further away, then the RO isn't doing his job and didn't give the RM the correct information. (I'll note I've never seen that happen, though of course it could.) You can certainly take it to arbitration, but I'm betting you'll lose as long as the angle to the popper stayed the same, and the only difference was additional length. That would be up to the arbitration committee, obviously.

And they don't shoot from the closest spot, because that's not what the rule says.

As for location, all of the times I've seen, the RO and the shooter agreed. In times of disagreement, I'm pretty sure the RM, RO, and shooter will work it out. (Pretty sure the RO call will stand, if absolute disagreement needs to be ruled upon.)

Main point: if the calibration shot is taken from a distance that is obviously closer to the popper than the original shot, and it hits the steel, then you are going to get a reshoot out of that. If it is farther, I'm betting you'd lose in arbitration, but maybe the RM will rule a reshoot due to finding out later it wasn't taken from the correct position. Who knows?

Not exactly right. The calibration shot will be taken from the spot closest to where the shot was fired as long as 50% of the calibration circle is available. See 4.3.1.5.2 and Appx C2 #7. The initial calibration will be taken from the farthest distance it is available where the calibration zone is available. I have been called for calibrations where the point of the actual shot was not really known since the competitor called the shot good and moved on. Of course after the fact they thought I took it here or there especially where it could be taken from multiple places. In those cases we had to come to some sort of agreement between the ROs and the competitor.

Jay

[Thomas H]

Not exactly right. The calibration shot will be taken from the spot closest to where the shot was fired as long as 50% of the calibration circle is available. See 4.3.1.5.2 and Appx C2 #7.

4.3.1.5 says, in part:

All Poppers shall follow the guidelines below:

1. That a minimum of 50% of the calibration zone be available at some point in the COF.

2. That the calibration will be done from a point on the COF where the calibration zone is available, closest to where the contested shot was fired.

In that, we see that point 1 is merely that 50% of the calibration zone is available AT SOME POINT in the course of fire. That is separate from "that the calibration will be done from a point on the COF where the calibration zone is available." (Among other things, 4.3.1.5 is about poppers in general, and is not a rule specifically about calibration.)

C1#7 merely again says: "...must conduct a calibration test of the subject popper (when required under 6c above), from as near as possible to the point from where the competitor shot the popper."

It also says: "See rule 4.3.1.5 for Poppers partially hidden by cover" which references what I said above.

So while 50% of the popper needs to be available at some point during the course of fire, it does NOT require the calibration shot to be taken from there, merely that the calibration shot should be taken where the calibration zone is available, closest to where the contested shot was fired.

Or is there some other statement in the rulebook that requires differently?