vincent Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I am not happy with a number of things about the new rulebook. However I think that all the personal attacks on Bill Wilson and Wilson Combat are sad. I really don't think the Wilson's are trying to screw anyone with IDPA and the comments that IDPA was made or modified to promote Wilson Combat products is ridiculous. The only Wilson product you see a lot of at IDPA matches is his 8-round 1911 magazines. Wilson guns and holsters are few and far between. Glock, Kimber, Comp-Tac, and Blade-Tech on the other hand cover over 50% of what I see at matches. I don't see people attacking Gaston Glock, Leslie Edelman, Greg Garret, Tim Wegner, etc. I think these forums are a great way to voice your opinion and get information out, but a continuous stream of cheap shots don't help. If you've got a real problem or issue then let's discuss it. I know I could go without reading another Wilson bash for awhile, but I doubt it will happen. -Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I really don't think the Wilson's are trying to screw anyone with IDPA and the comments that IDPA was made or modified to promote Wilson Combat products is ridiculous. I think these forums are a great way to voice your opinion and get information out, but a continuous stream of cheap shots don't help. If you've got a real problem or issue then let's discuss it. I know I could go without reading another Wilson bash for awhile, but I doubt it will happen. -Vincent In a way I agree with you. I do not feel the personal attacks are proper. Flex deleted one I was posting that never should have been. To say the least, I have been frustrated. Although since I am writing this, I will still qualify this with "In my opinion" Which we all know what opinions are. IMO, there is a right way and a wrong way to implement changes in an organization that, according to Mr Wilson's response, has more than 12000 members. Each member receives the quarterly publication. In it, there could have been an announcement, an article, something stating rule changes were being considered and the input of the members was being solicited. That would at least let people know it was coming. When the new rules are implemented, a settling period could have been used. These rules were in force as of the day all but a few found out. That caused a lot of hard feelings. Now there is a grace period. Much better idea. The letter now posted on the IDPA web site would have softened the blow of new rules had it been written and posted when the rule changes were posted. A lot of people that were upset, justifiably or not, would have at least had an idea why the rule changes happened. I have found that IDPA communiction is the poorest between HQ and all members. Some people are responded to, others are not. There should be an official central area where IDPA opinions from questions asked are posted. Too much of the communication of rules and opinions are from rumor. The rumors flew on this one. There were mistakes made on both sides of this argument. I hope members and administration can get past it and move on. Those that want to leave will do so. Those that are not sure will make up their minds in their own time. Those that are staying and playing will bend to the rules. No matter what your position is, it is time to move on. I have always enjoyed the sport but I am taking a wait and see attitude as I am not prepared to purchase new equipment just to play and most of my gear is still legal. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 If you are in the postion of President, weather elected or appointed, you had better have very thick skin and a very clear purpose and direction for the organiztion or group you are leading. This applies to all organiztions from the US to Xerox to any of the shooting organizations. People in authority get questioned every day about there actions. When you own a company that could profit from those actions, you better be ready to defend each and every one of them. There will always be the apearance of favoritism even if it doesn't exist. Why do you think they make politicans divest themselves of all stocks and resign from the BoD of corporations when they take office? Can you immagine if VP Cheney was still with Haliburton ? He still gets accused of favoritism none the less. President Truman once said, " If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Perhaps Bill & Joyce should take a minute and think about what he meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 If they are this hurt by the people who pay to be part of an organization, maybe it is time for them to hand the reigns over to the members. This process was flawed and they should have expected a backlash. Maybe they could have looked at the approach that USPSA took in implementing the new IPSC rules. There was a committee formed that sought input from the members. There was a copy of the rules posted for a comment period. And finally the new rules were posted to the web site months before they took affect. Not everyone was happy with the new rules, but they had enough warning about the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Who's Bill Wilson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I've let everyone vent for the past week to ten days, because I thought people needed to. At this point though, let me take the opportunity to redirect the conversation a little by reminding everyone of a couple of Brian's rules from the forum guidelines: Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. Please – no antagonistic or quarrelsome tones. and this one which I lifted specifically from the hate forum rules --- which is sort of appropriate since there was some hatin' going on here: Posts involving firearms or shooting related manufacturers, such as but not limited to - IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, the NRA, or other shooters - are specifically NOT PERMITTED. If your hate rant has to do with shooting then it needs to be directed towards yourself. Please help us by focusing the discussion on interpretation and on "skating to edge of the rules" without going over...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Please don't hurt anyone's feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Nik, Thanks for reminding us of the rules. But, in IDPA's case BW is the King/Owner. It is hard to discuss these rule changes without breaking the forum rule. I think that we can leave Wilson Combat out of the conversation, but BW as a person should be free game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It is hard to discuss these rule changes without breaking the forum rule. I think that we can leave Wilson Combat out of the conversation, but BW as a person should be free game. No one is fair game. It's time to talk about how to live with the rules, what they mean, how they should be interpreted, what holster manufacturers are willing to do, etc. It's time to let the anger go ---- or if that's not a possibility, then it's time to take the anger somewhere else. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaneACP Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Nik; I very much don't agree. The reason IDPA had to be created in the first place was because we all"ived with" the rules for USPSA until they bit us soundly in the anal region. I refer you to those great Zen philosophers Peter Townsend and the Who: Won't get foioled again! I also think that Bill protesteth a bit too much. When you put yourself in front of the public, being hit comes with the territory. That's why you get paid. I speak here from painful experience. I do a television show, and some people think I should be executed for it. Hey, welcome to the real world. Michael B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Michael et al., I wasn't attempting to shut down discussion of the rules per se --- I was hoping to see the non-productive angry comments and anti-IDPA comments and the comments directed at BW directly go away soon. Productive discussion? I'm all for it. Want to post about things you hate in the rulebook or in the sport in general without offering a suggestion? That I think should be relegated elsewhere..... Want to talk about getting rules changed? Cool --- though at the end of the thread someone should take it upon themselves to e-mail IDPA. Want to talk about interpretations --- I'm there with you. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsashooter45 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 All I have to say is Vincent hit the nail on the head, I agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thumbed through a new Wilson catalog for a few minutes this morning, noted that the holsters (not sure all...but maybe all) had an "IDPA legal" stamp on the pictured ad. I don't know if that is under new or old rules, but assume it is for the new rules as it was a new catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Doesn't that make them advertised as for the purpose of competition and thus not suitable for the sport of IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Doesn't that make them advertised as for the purpose of competition and thus not suitable for the sport of IDPA. Good Point! Kinda makes it GAMER equipment, huh? Not made for concealed carry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 CLOSED. Folks, this IDPA forum exists so that shooters have a place to share information to better their shooting. It is not a dumping place for venting your frustrations for the politics of the organization. Any further meantion of Bill Wilson in an antagonistist manner will not be acceptable. Kyle F. Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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