spo1 lower in shadow upper legal in production?

[alma]

Right, just because you have a gun that is identical in every way to a legal Production gun doesn't mean it's legal for Production. :-/

[kneelingatlas]

Below are direct quotes from an email conversation with John Amidon, USPSA Vice President/NROI Director, for your information:

kneelingatlas:

Mr. Amidon,

CZ Custom sells complete Shadow uppers (http://czcustom.com/cz75shadow9mmtopend.aspx) is this upper installed on my SP01 USPSA Production Legal?

Thank you

John Amidon:

The rules state that you can replace the barrel and slide with aftermarket as long as they are the same caliber, contour and size, it however, also states that Removing or disabling firing-pin blocks or any other factory safety mechanism in Production division is specifically prohibited. Also, (8.1.2.4). It is the competitors responsibility to be able to demonstrate at any time that all factory safety mechanisms are functional, regardless of whether they are internal or external.

Short answer would be no, it is not legal in Production as it removes or disables one of the factory safties.

kneelingatlas:

Good afternoon John,

I really hate to be a pest, but I posted you response to my question regarding a Shadow slide on a SP01 frame and another forum member forwarded me an email he received from you in January which appears to call it a legal configuration; have you changed your mind on this matter? I, as well as many others who bought Shadow slides from CZC for this very purpose, would really appreciate clarification.

Thank you

Mr. Amidon,

The issue of swapping a slide from a Smith and Wesson M&P core with the slide from a Pro / L model has recently come up.

Assuming that the slides are from guns of the same length and caliber, wouldn't the pro and core slides still be of a different contour and due to the cutout in the core slide for optics? This would seem to be against the production rules according to Appendix D4 21.3.

Thank you

As the CORE is not an approved model and the Pro / L is, he would be changing slides with an approved model providing it meets the caliber which it does, and the length.

John

Would this hold true for other guns, say a cz sp-01 and a sp-01 shadow? They are both approved guns for production, and the slides are the same length , profile, and caliber.

Essentially is a factory slide treated like any other factory part that may be used if it is available on an approved model?

Thanks

Yes, as long as it meets the division criteria.

John

John Amidon:

The rules stipulate you can replace slides with either factory or aftermarket as long as they are of the same length, contour and caliber. The rules also state that Removing or disabling firing-pin blocks or any other factory safety mechanism in Production division is specifically prohibited. The question he asked was it possible to replace the slide of the SP-o1 with an SP-Shadow, both are on the approved list, as I stated in my reply as long as it meets the division criteria, that would include the above of not removing or disabling firing-pin blocks, if switching the slides requires the removal of the firing pin block, then obviously it cannot be done per the rules. If he had stated at the time that it would be removing the firing pin block, then I would have told him no, it is up to him to comply with the rules, if only have questions are asked, then you get the answer you want, but that does not relieve you of following the rules.

John

kneelingatlas:

The firing pin block is a part of the slide assembly.

John Amidon:

Then the part about removing or disabling the firing-pin block not being allowed, should give the clear answer NO, it is not legal per appendix D4 item 22.

John

John Amidon:

Also, that is why I said in the answer, as long as it meets the criteria of the division. Obviously, it doesn’t.

John

kneelingatlas:

Thank you for clearing that up John, if you don't mind I'd like to share your responses on the Brian Enos Forums.

John Amidon:

No problem.

John

I will now bite my tongue and continue to shoot Open

[BeerBaron]

yeah It's a funny one. I guess since you started with an SP01 that has a FPB. by taking off the slide and putting on a shadow slide you are 'removing or disabling a safety device'. it's a bit of a shame that since the shadow is approved you can't buy a shadow upper for your SP01 frame (since SP01 frames and shadow frames are identical).

Could anyone ever tell that what you have is an SP01 with a shadow top end? no. but is that division compliant? no. does it give any performance advantage over a guy with a factory shadow? no.

I guess it means if you want to run a shadow top end, you better have that shadow bottom end underneath it.

[tortuga]

So when my "SP-01 Shadow" marked Shadow-T slide gets here in a few days, I'll put it on a 75 Shadow frame instead of a 75 SA Frame. Good to know! Hope I can remember which one is which, they all look alike.

This rig will make an RO's head explode, I'm sure.

Edited June 3, 2014 by tortuga

[tortuga]

Speaking of which....there would be some serious 'splainin to do with this setup

[Czhase]

Speaking of which....there would be some serious 'splainin to do with this setup

Very nice find.

If that upper throws up to many red flags at equipment check I would be nice enough to take it off of your hands. It would be right at home on my SP 01 lower. I mean "SP 01 Shadow".

[tortuga]

Speaking of which....there would be some serious 'splainin to do with this setup

Very nice find.

If that upper throws up to many red flags at equipment check I would be nice enough to take it off of your hands. It would be right at home on my SP 01 lower. I mean "SP 01 Shadow".

You, sir, are a true gentleman.

[Gcarr]

So... What about a "Shadow Rail" ... Cz Custom part #91700 ???