Mstevens72 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well I am looking for some input from all of you who have good advice... So my 12 year old son will be shooting in his first trap session this year, starts next Saturday. So we are new to the sport, however I am not new to shooting a shotgun, been in the field a lot, just new to the sporting side. So I started him off a several weeks ago at the range with a gun that we had already and a hand me down from his brother... a Mossberg 500 youth model... it kicks like a mule since it is so light.. he broke a few clays and was hooked. So fast forward... a few more weeks into this adventure now he has been shooting a Tristar "hunter" 20ga o/u.. he has done well with this gun (much better than the youth gun) however I wanted him to shoot a 12ga if he could handle it... Yesterday we went out.. took three guns to the range... MY 1187 upland special (english stock?? and a short barrel) his Tristar (which by the way is falling apart) and my old 1200 pump (never made it out of the truck to get shot). We started with him shooting the 1187 to see if he can handle it... first round on the gun he broke 16, second round I joined in with his 20ga and two other shooters as well... he broke 20 with the 1187..... Sorry onto the question.. he did well with the 1187, however LOP is too long (don't want to cut MY gun), he wants an O\U for doubles, Sporting and Skeet at some point however I am not going to drop 1.5K to 3K at this point. My options... (btw.. I really want to keep him in a 12ga, concern O\U recoil since he has not shot one vs. the 12ga autoloader.) H 1. Cut my 1187.. he does not like the english stock for trap 2. Purchase this gun Mossberg Silver Reserve II Sport Over/Under Shotgun 12 Gauge 28" Ported Barrels 3" Chamber Dual Bead Sights is in the price range 3. Visit the local gun store that our friends own and see what they have in the used selections... concern is a field gun is lighter and will not help on the recoil. SO not looking for a 30++ inch gun that is too big, a 3k O\U that I already KNOW is better than the $700 Mosseberg, once again not his last gun, just his first... any comments\ideas would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'd get him an 1100 or other gas operated auto. Not as sexy as a O/U, but his shoulder'll get beat up less. If you reload and are real concerned with throwing away hulls, you only have to lose 4 hulls per round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Get a spare stock and cut it down for the 11-87. Less recoil than an O/U. Or, the next cheapest option would be to get an 1100 in 12 or 20. Really, if he's happy with a 20, let him shoot 20. Less recoil, and he wouldn't be giving up much to a 12 at all. Might make him a better shooter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstevens72 Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 I was a fan of the 20 at first, however the gun is falling apart from the amount of shooting he is doing, hence why we are in the market for another option. I also shot the 20 yesterday and can tell you there is a huge difference between them on the clays. He was so confident yesterday he wanted us to move back to the 19 yard line, we did he shooting my 1187 and me on his 20, needless to say I got a good spanking from him.... Lol! One of his goals is to be shooting doubles well buy the end of the year.... Hence why I keep comming back to the o/u..... I guess I should of mentioned... Shooting is his sport... He is not a football , soccer kid, he has been shooting small bore competitive for a few years and now wants to move to something other than punching paper, so I am not concerened in the investment, just not going to that 3k level yet. I know the o/u will kick more... But for him what is more? Had to judge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillM Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Look for a good used semi-auto Beretta 302, 303, 390 or 391; you cannot go wrong. The Arizona Open sporting clays shoot last week was won with a 302 or 303 can't remember exactly which. Cut stock and adjust shims for cast to fit him and he'll have two shots, no recoil in a target breaking reliable machine. They're easy to clean, easy to keep running and parts are cheap if you need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Buy a cheap beater stock online and cut it down. Avoid the cheap light OU shotguns as they just don't hold up and recoil more. If you reload you can load very light 12 ga loads. If you go OU down the road look for a used beretta or browning as they are good solid guns that hold up and hold their value well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstevens72 Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I was looking at something like... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=394477972 If we do the 12 ga o/u.... I think or plan is to get a stock for the 11-87 and cut it... We still will be going tomorrow to our friends shop to see what they have...if they have a good used gun I might snatch it up as well. Any leads on where to find stocks on line? Wood of course, nothing synthetic. Thanks for all the input! Edited February 18, 2014 by Mstevens72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Gunbroker ebay etc. Or just get a factory youth stock like this http://www.midwayusa.com/product/210128/speedfeed-sport-buttstock-youth-13-length-of-pull-remington-870-1100-11-87-12-gauge-synthetic-black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would save your money on the mossberg as it's not one to hold up. On an OU a quality used one will be better than a new lesser gun. If your budget is sub 1k check out one of the older 391 or even a 390 as those are workhorses and will cycle even light loads reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 i think shoot with a modified/cut down stock on the existing 1187 for a while. If he likes it and t runs, why not? A stock is a good option, and as he grows he will be able to switch out. Then start keeping an eye out on the used market and see what you can come up with. I ended up with a Franchi I paid less than $400 for. I shot with an 870 for a while, eventually wore out an 1100 (gas ring didn't hold up to 3 gun). I then managed to pick up an SX2 at a steal, so I can shoot gas or a double depending on mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striped1 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 By a second stock and cut it down for the 1187 and put a Limbsaver on it. If he is big enough to handle the weight and recoil of the 12 without having flinch issues than you are good. I started a 10 year old girl out on a 20 gauge rem 870 that I cut down and put a limbsaver and a hi-viz sight on. She held her own for a couple of years with that shooting low 20's consistently. If you can shoot 20+ with a 20, you are going to add a few clays with the 12. fit and flinch are your biggest issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
424D57 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Another vote to look into a Beretta (391, 3901 etc). Can be found well under 1k, and great trap guns. I think munchkin's SCTP team must have 15 of the things running around, some of them having been through several shooters (as they grew) over a decade. -424D57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstevens72 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thanks everyone for the great information... So we are looking to get another stock for the 1187 for him. Our friends who own the gun shop also took really well care of us... He has a cz redhead that has been fitted for him, 26 inch 12 ga.. With a good size pad on it... The plan is to have him shooting both as needed... We will let him determine which one is best for him.... Lucky kid at this point in my mind and has to be thankful we have such good friends! Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Sounds good. A 12ga with 1-1/8oz at 1150fps is a good low recoil load. Drop down to a 1oz load at same velocity and you won't give up much in patterning and will break clays just as good. Heft of the 12ga will make that O/U kick less than a gas operated 20ga. Gun fit is really the key to recoil management. Fine adjustment is left for the ammo choice. Glad to see a youth getting into the shooting sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstevens72 Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 I was able to sneak him out to the range today after school. He shot two rounds of trap from the 16 line... Fist round in the new o/u was a 22, second round was a 21. He is happy, good to see the big smile afterwards. He said his arm was refine and he felt that the gun recoil at the end was a little more into him but was not "flippy" on how it finished (his words). I am going to build him some 1 oz loads on some PB powder next week to see what he thinks of them, they should be around 1600+ fps... Once again thanks for all of the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillM Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I am going to build him some 1 oz loads on some PB powder next week to see what he thinks of them, they should be around 1600+ fps...I hope that's a typo.... 1600 fps is way over and above any reasonable and/or necessary velocity for a target load. I doubt you could find a load (I haven't looked) for PB over about 1250-1300 and even that's not necessary. PB is known as a soft recoiling target powder so it's a good choice at target velocities. Admittedly I'm a dinosaur and I know there are new proprietary wads and powders for hunting loads but the fastest load I've ever used for hunting is Kent FastSteel at 1550 out of a gas gun (Xtrema with kickoff) so recoil is not an issue. Out of an O/U would be a different story... I just split a pallet of Rio target loads with a couple of sporting clays master and AA class friends which was 120 flats (10 boxes of 25). Of those more than half were 7/8 oz. and the 40 flats I got were 1 oz. at 1280fps, not sure what the 7/8 oz speed is. If we (I'm M class) don't need more than that I can't see why your son would. The other guys shoot the light loads because of recoil issues; I shoot an O/U that weighs more than nine pounds and fits me perfectly and recoil is not an issue for me plus I shoot the same load in competition and practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstevens72 Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yep. Sorry was suppose to be 1160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillM Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I figured that was the case. Sounds like you've got a great load (every eighth shell gets "free" lead) and a great kid. My two boys and I spent many a happy and fun time at the clays range and hunting birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstevens72 Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 I thought that I would provide a simple update on the gun situation... So my 12 year old sone has been shooting the CZ redhead we got him for 3 weeks or so now. He shoots as part of the AIM (http://www.aim4ata.com/)program every Saturday morning. They try to get 100 targets in, however the weather has been keeping them in the 50-75 range (snow and wind). Anyways he has been shooting in the mid to high 80's and even broke a 90 the other day at practice. He truly loves the sport! The CZ has had no issues for him, in fact we are looking to add another one to the family for the wife... we are thinking the lady sterling. I have been working some loads for them both and they both like the PB with 1 1/8 oz right around 1250+ fps. I like the "softness" of PB, however now the challenge is finding it! Anyways thanks for all of the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstevens72 Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 Update... he as moved over to shooting a browning bt99 for singles and handicap and is shooting a 725 for doubles. The CZ is a good gun, just not built for trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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