S_I

[olp73]

I am planning on building a S_I gun for IPSC Standard division. After long hours on the internet and in this forum I feel I know less then when I started. Over the years I owned 1911’s Tanfoglio and Glock but never a S_I based gun. Even thou I have tried several.

I wondered if anyone could give me some advice on which setup to choose. Like, long or short dust cover, ported or not ported slide, recoil reducer or not, are there some parts that are a must, or some part brands that have a reputation of being stronger or better. On brazos custom home page I read that a lot of people use a lighter setup now days because of the reduced PF. But this I guess is according to USPSA rules which have a lighter PF than IPSC (165?) So, maybe I should go for the long dust cover anyway, but a gun heavier than 38 ounces sounds much. The fact that I am not a top competitor is also a factor I believe? What does most people use?

And last but not least, where to buy. I have heard bad things about both SVI and STI “factory” guns. So maybe I should let a gunsmith build one. And if so, which one? Preferably somebody who can build a gun for MY needs. Maybe someone have an advice here? I expect the gun to cost something in the 1,8k – 2,5k $ range. It is ok if it takes 6 month, but then it radar be good!! I live in Europe so it has to be someone who ship over sea. Buying used is also an option, but I haven’t found much. Maybe I don’t know were to look.

Pictures are more than welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

olp

[infinity]

depends on how u will compete...if ur going at it full time and not just a hobby u'd need the higher priced parts for durability and good functionality. u can buy a gunsmith kit but then again, u said ur willing to wait for a few months. i would suggest that u contact SVI they'll give u what u want and what u need....BUT!!! never expect for a perfect gun anywhere u buy it. i'm not saying that svi won't do a great job....they might and they might not. good luck with ur project. once u get it shows us some pics.

thanks

infinity

[EricW]

How developed of a shooter are you? That will dictate the style of gun you feel the most comfortable with. Personally, I think that newer shooters should err on the side of heavier guns because the weight will damp out the tendency to over drive the gun - and keep the muzzle flip down a tad.

As you gain experience, your natural inclination will be to start removing weight to get a snappier, crisper feel.

[Loves2Shoot]

As you gain experience, your natural inclination will be to start removing weight to get a snappier, crisper feel.

Unless you are like TGO who shoots a big heavy gun

I'm not into snappy guns, I used to be but the better I get the more I like the smoothness of a gun with weight in the barrel (tungsten) I tend to relax more and shoot smoother.

I like the look of a long dust cover, but had speed cuts and a accessory rail cut into it to give it the weight of a short dust cover.

I have a Dawson Ice magwell on it now, the stainless (tried a tungsten also) magwell didn't work the way I hoped.

[dirtypool40]

You're going to get more advice on this than you ever wanted, but I'll be first to chime in.

These are MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and others may be different.

SVI builds some nice guns, and has a couple of neat ideas, like the ITS, Scott Grip and Interchangeable breech face. They are also (completely subjectively) a prettier gun IMHO. I have owned several SV based guns, by Neil Wiggans, Derek Janowicz, and Benny Hill. I like them all very much. That's the good side.

Now to the down side, again from my own experience; dealing with them can be a little frustrating. They do not return calls or emails, and getting something like a custom serial number or specific cuts on your slide may take upwards of four months. I don't know if it's a demand thing, some management issue or what's going on, but it does not seem to change.

I have purchased three frames and three slides (all unfit) from them over the last 18 months; One set was just as I ordered, perfect. On #2 the bomar cut was off center, and the raised flat top was skewed. My GS made it work, but at those prices I don't think I'm out of line expecting perfection. The last set was so crooked (disconnector rail etc) we had to send it back to exchange for a new parts.

Lastly, and maybe worst, the are more expensive. SV has positioned itself to be the "premium" supplier, but a six month wait and a bill for $925 for an UN-fitted slide and frame seems a little outrageous to me.

SV and it's distributors MAY have regular frames in stock. I have owned three or four total and have always been happy with them, even if I grumble about the customer service or price. Lastly, I like the SV mags tubes much better, smoother, less prone to rust.

STI. First the good stuff; A pleasure to deal with, they return phone calls, and emails. Their guns (and parts) are less expensive, and usally available. In MY experience when they tell you a delivery time they meet it or beat it. You have seen ads for STI "Edges" in stock all over the place, how many can you find for Infinity?

The down side, the guns are more basic, but functionally the same. They are, again IMHO, not as pretty as the SV's, but that is a situation easily fixed if they would put someone on changing the little details.

You don't have as many options as to trigger face, slide contours, and serrations, but you can get the gun now, and for a good deal less. On the other hand if you want all the goodies, and you start with an STI and then pay retail for the ITS, Scott grip etc, you are getting closer to the price SV demands.

I have owned at least three STI's and have another being built as I write this. I am kind of taking the salad bar approach, a little from this one and a little form that. My latest project is a short WIDE frame, ala Jerry Barnhart (just 'cause it looks diiferent than yours) with the serial # DIRTYPOOL40. From putting in the order my custom FITTED slide and frame took two months. Total was about $200 less than for the unfit parts from SV.

To answer your question more directly, unless you are hung up on details like a custom ser # or specific slide cuts, call around, find yourself the best deal on a frame. You can pick up a slide cheap enough, or go Caspian. You can get all the cuts done or have the GS do them. Long or short, it's really up to you. Personally I shoot the shorties, and if I decide I hate it, I can put all but about 1.5 ouces back in the gun. I just like the look better.

Several distributors have STI Edge's ready to ship if you don't want to wait for a GS to build one. Depends on how much you want to spend and how personal you want the final gun.

Have fun and feel free to PM me with any other questions.

[Mistral404]

My first Limited gun was an STI Kit with an extended dust cover. The frame, slide, barrel, trigger, and slide stop were included. I purchased all the parts thereafter. Scott grips were later installed. The gun was finished by Kodiak Precision. It is a very fine pistol. It shoots very well.

I then purchased an SV frame with and extended dust cover and purchased all the parts. It has a Sprinco guide rod, Aftec extractor, Nowlin barrel, Brown safeties, ITS fire controls, Scott grips, Dawson front sight and Bomar rear. Kodiak Precision built the gun. It looks almost exactly like the "cover gun."

The parts differences between the two guns are the Sprinco, Aftec, and ITS. The guns feel about the same but the SV shoots so much softer and smoother it is noticable. The Sprinco is a good investment.

The extended dust cover does recoil the muzzle flip. I would not lighten the slide as this counter acts the benefits of an extended dust cover. Unless of course you like a flippy gun, I do not. It is harder for me to control. My power factors are a little higher than most which is probably why I notice the flip more.

If you can get discounted pricing on parts, it may be better for you to order all the parts you want and have a good smith build the gun for you. All in all, it seems as if a custom built gun runs about $2500 from Kodiak Precison, Brazos, or Dawson. A stock STI Edge from Dawson is about $1660. {oops forgot about Benny Hill and JP sorry about that}

The question to you is: Is a custom built gun worth the extra money. IT was for me.

My Key features for a great gun are:

SV extended frame

SV slide

Dawson front sight

Bomar rear

Sprinco guide rod

Aftec Extractor

Brown Grip and Thumb safeties

Nowlin Barrel-Clark/Para cut

SV Trigger system

ZM Main spring housing

Steel mag well (had a Big Dawson mag which was great but went to a smaller one)

EGW ejector and slide stop

SV mags

Grams base pads, springs and followers.

All of this said, since you live over there---SV does have a distributors overseas. Talk with them also.

[EricW]

As you gain experience, your natural inclination will be to start removing weight to get a snappier, crisper feel.

Unless you are like TGO who shoots a big heavy gun

Scott,

I should have said "top end". I like the rest of the gun heavy too.

Let me finish with:

Mr. Leatham's Limited Gun

Mr. Leathams Lim-10 Gun

My gun:

I think my gun looks a lot more like Robbies' than yours. (We will not discuss out relative classifications, however )

[Loves2Shoot]

I think I might buy me one of those Caspian hi cap frames if they ever decide to make decent mags that will hold 19 rounds of .40 or a Springfield if the offer in in .40.

[olp73]

It looks like a heavy gun is not the same as a gun with a heavy dust cover. We also have the short heavy ones? Like TGO’s and paras? Correct me if I’m wrong, but can it be that a gun that has more of it’s wait close to the hand. Is faster to swing between targets?

I have used Glock 17’s a lot, both privat and in the service. And even thou the gun is full of errors. I have always liked the way it balances with a full magazine. The wait is kind of in the hand and it is very fast from target to target. May be I could learn something from this when I moves to the S_I platform? Of course this is 9mm recoil so there is no need for a bull barrel or heavy dust covers, but I always missed this feeling when I was shooting my single stack 45.

So maybe the S_I should have a short cover, but heavy magwell and m.spring housing? To put more of the wait in the rear. Will weight help tame recoil even if it is not in the front?

what is the weight og TGO's limited gun?

[TMC]

My Open Para frame with an S&A magwell is heaver than my long dust cover SV frame. TGO's SA hi-cap as pictured should be heavier than a S_I limited. I guess all the steel in the grip area make up the extra weight.

My buddy and I weightd our guns awhile back for the SWAT match (they have a 38oz. rule) and him Limcat tungsten barreled, std SS guiderod, dawson ice magwell, long dustcover SV weight in at 36+, my P-16 with a schueman bull barrel, tungsten guiderod and a dawson brass magwell was just over 40. I had to run the alum. magwell for the match. When you hold the two back to back the SV is more nose heavy and this may give the impression of it being a heavier gun but its not. Interesting eh?

So for all you guys looking for the heaviest limited gun.... shoot a Para.

[Loves2Shoot]

So maybe the S_I should have a short cover, but heavy magwell and m.spring housing? To put more of the wait in the rear. Will weight help tame recoil even if it is not in the front?

I've played around a lot with.

Here is what I found, if you add weight to the bottom of the gun (ie. tungsten magwell) It shoots REALLY soft and is very stable, but it doesn't return to target as fast. To make it return at the speed I liked I had to use a 16 lb spring, which caused other things that I didn't like to happen.

Feel is what it is.

I know I can get to the next target as fast with a heavy or light gun because the timer tells me so. I think the most important thing is that you are comfortable with what you are shooting. Some like light violent (i.e. Glock) guns and some prefer softer shooting tanks, both are better than most any of us will ever be.

So, make something YOU think is cool and don't worry about the rest, and most of all feed the thing as much and as often as you can. DVC

[infinity]

right now i am in the process of building my first s_i blaster and since i also have a single stack, somehow i do have an idea of what works. but, i've asked around from shooters here in the philippines and so far the best of all suggestion for me is this:

long dustcover

tungsten/mercury g-rod

stainless/steel/aluminum m/s housing

steel magwell

according to the person who suggested this having the balance in the rear of ur gun plus the heavy nose, it will give u less felt recoil and more stable shots. what do u guys think about this? also, i'm a little skeptic on the tungsten g-rod because some shooters i spoke with had complains of using the tungsten. they were experiencing the heavy nose dip on their 2nd shot and they recommended a mercury filled g-rod? what do u guys think?

thanks

infinity

[Shooter Grrl]

It's ALL personal preference. I STRONGLY suggest you build a relationship with one of the top gunsmiths and work it out with him.

[infinity]

but has anyone ever tried using a blaster that heavy?(steel m/s housing, steel magwell, long dustcvr, tungsten g-rod)

[EricW]

they were experiencing the heavy nose dip on their 2nd shot and they recommended a mercury filled g-rod? what do u guys think?

If you have never spent much time behind a S_I Limited gun, you should just buy a used one for $1000 to $1200 and shoot it for a while before you go and build custom. It's 90% personal preference and there is no way to know what will work for you until you saddle up and ride for a while.

As far as the mercury guide rods, look at what the big dogs run. It either tungsten or steel. I have NEVER heard of anyone using a mercury guide rod in a USPSA Limited gun - and I've been surfing this forum for a loooong time. There's been some recent threads on the subject. A search on "mercury guide rod" should turn a few threads up.

but has anyone ever tried using a blaster that heavy?(steel m/s housing, steel magwell, long dustcvr, tungsten g-rod)

There's basically no configuration that hasn't been tried before by now. Pick something and shoot it and then you'll know what you really want.

[infinity]

hi eric, thanks for the input. unfortunately i am from the philppines and i believe that buying a used one will be more likely close to buying a new one (price)

also, limited div. has an advantage in magazine length and capacity so a ltd gun will be heavier than a std div gun right?

[olp73]

It's ALL personal preference. I STRONGLY suggest you build a relationship with one of the top gunsmiths and work it out with him.

I am more than willing. Just name a few!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[olp73]

The idea for this post was to have some starting point. Not that I think that everything will be perfect the first time, but maybe I could avoid the newcomer blunders. (Like, a long dustcover can be cut to a short one but not vs.)

There has been a lot of enlightening posts here, and I am grateful for all help, but maybe we could drift the post towards the common mistakes.

[Jasonub]

right now i am in the process of building my first s_i blaster and since i also have a single stack, somehow i do have an idea of what works. but, i've asked around from shooters here in the philippines and so far the best of all suggestion for me is this:

long dustcover

tungsten/mercury g-rod

stainless/steel/aluminum m/s housing

steel magwell

according to the person who suggested this having the balance in the rear of ur gun plus the heavy nose, it will give u less felt recoil and more stable shots. what do u guys think about this? also, i'm a little skeptic on the tungsten g-rod because some shooters i spoke with had complains of using the tungsten. they were experiencing the heavy nose dip on their 2nd shot and they recommended a mercury filled g-rod? what do u guys think?

thanks

infinity

build it with a long dust, that way if you want to lighten it just cut it off. then use a steel guide rod. you want it heavier switch to tungsten.

use the plastic mainspring housing, you want it heavier buy a steel one. use an aluminum magwell want it heavier switch to steel, want it heavier, tungsten.

you have to begin somewhere and everyone wants their gun to react in a different manner. you will get there with experiments.

before i thought the 9mm had a cool recoil. I got used to it and felt it was not recoiling. switched to a 45 hi cap for ipsc and it had more recoil. got used to it and thought it was not recoiling that much. switched to a 40. and the recoil was snappy and felt like my hand was being slapped with each round. it was not uncomfortable. after getting used to it, it did not feel that it recoils hard.

now i use a sv long dust with aluminum magwell and plastic ms housing, a full profile slide and cominolli tungsten magwell. i may change the ms housing to steel since when drifiring i seemed to damage my ms housing. with the numerous reloads. My magwell looks like $%@ but still its ok. The plastic ms housing gets eaten up quickly. in fact its my 3rd one in a few months.

so, its about what you want. thats the nice thing about the 1911, you can customize to your wants not necessaryly to your needs.

I live in the phils and have been competing for nearly a year since we had that crazy gun ban. anyway top shooters here at standard division mostly use para or armscor hi caps. i think im the only one using a svi/sti.

good luck its a great journey getting what you want ask MColiver about modifications. We call him Mcalikot (Mr. tinkerer)since he seems to have tried everything and he is still tinkering with his limited gun up to now

[infinity]

jason, we've met b4 in another forum. I_am_infinity !!!

u finally replaced ur aluminum magwell with a tungsten huh?! at least it'll last longer than ur aluminum i'm still waiting for my slide, so hopefully by january it's all ready to go. maybe we can shoot together n u can give me pointers on how to improve. thanks for the input.

infinity

[Jasonub]

nope i did not replace the al magwell since it has not cracked yet and is still serving its purpose.

i can give you a few tips i shoot regularly at the marine sniper range in fort bonifacio.

good luck

[Eye Cutter]

i think jason was referring to the cominolli tungsten guide rod and not a tungsten magwell.

[infinity]

i thought so. thanks

[achard]

Jason/Infinty

Can I join you guys sometime next year? I'm planning to shoot every quarter.

[Jasonub]

no problem. were all off topic so we should get back to the topic at hand