Resizing issue with Redding die set

[ScottQ]

I'm still fairly new to reloading, and so far I've been doing 9mm and .45 ACP on my Hornady Lock N Load AP without any real issues. I just started setting up to reload .40 S&W though, and ran into an issue that I hoped I could get some insight/opinions on.

Thus far sizing cases for 9mm and .45 ACP has been no issue. I use the Hornady dies for both of these calibers, and they have been working well. For .40 S&W I wanted to try a Redding die set, though, so I picked up the Pro Series Titanium Carbide die set, part number 89253, which is as far as I can tell the die set Redding suggests for progressive presses.

The issue is that the sizing die seems to be buckling the cases toward the bottom. The Redding instructions seem to be more or less the same as the other Hornady and Lee die sets I've used, i.e. screw the die into the press until it contacts the shellholder, and tighten it down. Redding does add one note in their instructions, which states "This adjustment works best for most cases. However, you may find that adjusting the die away from the shellholder slightly may product better appearing sized cases."

The pictures I've attached are after I've already "adjusted the die away from the shellholder slightly". Previous attempts with the shellholder touching the die show the same thing, only much worse. In this set of pictures one of the cases is clearly crunched, one is slightly crunched, and the other two look to be fine.

I included both a before and an after picture. These shells were not shot through a Glock, and do not at least to my eye appear to be particularly bulged prior to resizing. So what I'm wondering is:

1) Is this die just sizing much lower than the Hornady and Lee dies I'm used to, and I simply need to adjust it up until it stops buckling the case?

2) Is the die likely defective? Should I contact Redding? It certainly feels much tighter on resizing than the other dies I've used.

3) I understand .40 S&W can be somewhat more picky, due to higher pressures than many other calibers. Should I be running all my .40 brass through something like the G-Rx die before reloading them? They certainly don't look to be particularly bulged.

4) Is there something else going on that I'm missing here? Note that when I started having this issue I switched to a .40 Lee die set I have, and that die set seemed to run fine without messing up any cases, and the ammo ran fine through my STI Edge.

Thanks for any insights!

Scott

[fmj3]

If the sizing die is doing that to a large number of cases I'd guess it may be out of spec.

FWIW, I've always had very good results with both of my Lee carbide .40 sizing dies for loading ammo for my 2011 - I am using the Redding pro seater & taper crimp dies tho. A lot of people like to run a u die for .40, but I haven't had any chambering issues with the regular sizing die so I haven't tried it yet.

[wide45]

Bad brass will give you the belted magnum look.

[ScottQ]

This is essentially all once fired brass, the vast majority being Winchester White Box fired from my HK USP Compact. I suppose I could certainly sort by headstamp and see if there's any pattern to be seen with certain brands of brass.

I did stop by Redding's site, and checked their FAQ's. Their answer seems to be:

Question: My Titanium Carbide Resizing Die is leaving a ring on the bottom of my case, is there something wrong with my Die?

Answer: The size of the carbide ring inside a Titanium Carbide Sizing Die must be small enough to allow the case to accept a bullet with adequate neck tension. Thus, the bottom of a case may be sized a little more than it has to be. Usually, backing the Die away from the Shellholder to size approximately 1/2 of the case or enough of the case to hold the bullet with rectify the problem.

I'm sure backing off the sizing die to only size the top half of the case would work, but it seems as though that defeats part of the reason to resize them in the first place. Other dies from other manufacturers don't have this problem, do they?

[omayer]

Hi Scott,

I went through the same thing with my Redding die set for .40 S&W. I called Redding and essentially got the same answer as in the FAQ - the carbide ring inside the die is there to size to top part of the case. Tech support's suggestion was to back off the die (in my case 1 1/2 turns out from contact with the shell plate) until there are no more 'rings' around the bottom of the case.

Redding does make a dual ring carbide sizer die for .40 S&W that should, theoretically, eliminate the problem.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=124:dual-ring-carbide-dies

Cheers,

Oliver

[ScottQ]

Well, lesson learned I suppose. That's an awfully expensive die set to work as poorly as it seems to work. Buying an additional $147 dual ring sizing die to properly size a case seems a bit silly, especially when other manufacturers' die sets seem to work just fine without all the drama.

[Dezman]

I went through the same thing and was told by Redding to get the dual ring die. My comment to them was I already paid top dollar for a die and didn't expect to get a response to buy another higher priced die to fix their design flaw. I had a few experiences like this with Redding and have jumped off the Redding bandwagon for pistol dies. Maybe they are the way to go for rifle.

I bought a Lee U Die and never looked back.

[jcc7x7]

If it is primarily on one side or half the case you are not getting the case into the shell holder all the way and the case is going in at a very slight angle as you raise the ram

[at_liberty]

Loading .40 S&W is not worth the aggravation unless running everything through the Redding G-Rx, including loaded ammo made previously or bought "remanufactured" and giving some failures to go into battery. I suggest getting the carbide version and then avoiding the lube requirement.

I have done all this and can offer that, for me, the U-die is counterproductive because it sizes .001 smaller. Yes, it has a radius to hide transitions, but who says you need more neck tension and an even larger bubble at the web area?

I use the dual ring on .45 ACP but only because of slightly larger lead bullets. I don't use lead in .40 S&W, so the special die isn't needed. The street price BTW is $100. It might actually work on .40 but would be a luxury until using lead.

What you're seeing now does no real harm IMO until rounds fail to go into battery or better yet, fail gauging. You really should use the G-Rx or gauge (or barrel) check EVERY round.

[Shadowrider]

It's not your Redding die, you'll have the same issue with all others if they are to SAMMI spec. My Hornady does the same exact thing.

at_liberty is spot on. I've had .40 brass that FOLDED OVER it was so bulged and wouldn't go through the GRx die at all. The GRx die is specifically for this problem and doesn't take it all the way down like your sizing die will, you still have to full length size it. But it will make life much easier, I don't even case gage any more. I've also had a few that were a real bear to get through and just recently had a case head separation and I'm sure this is why. So if you get some that are too tough, pitch those. Reloading .40 is almost as bad as .223.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Shadowrider

[fmj3]

I must just be lucky, but I've loaded buckets of LEO .40 range brass (all Glock'd) thru a std Lee .40 carbide sizing die and they all run thru my 2011 just fine. I've come across a few that won't case gauge 100%, they go in the practice bin and run fine too at the range.

I actually bought a Bulge Buster based on issues I read about, but I've never even mounted it up.

[at_liberty]

I must just be lucky, but I've loaded buckets of LEO .40 range brass (all Glock'd) thru a std Lee .40 carbide sizing die and they all run thru my 2011 just fine. I've come across a few that won't case gauge 100%, they go in the practice bin and run fine too at the range.

Then a loose fitting chamber could impact performance.

Edited December 2, 2013 by at_liberty

[Russellhjoy]

Do you use case lube? If not, I would try that and make sure your shell plate isn't over/under rotating before or during making contact with the die. I have the dual ring sizer die and it works beautifully, so I can't imagine redding would sell such a poor die in such an expensive die set. I do know that die is undersized and I've seen that some people have found they can't set the die all the way down to the plate. It may be best to just use your lee sizer.

[98sr20ve]

I would try some case lube. It looks like you washed the cases as they are all spotted. You want the die to slide on the case not push the brass downward. Try some pledge in a bag and just shake some cases around in the bag. See if it helps.

[NinerRider]

I went through the same thing and was told by Redding to get the dual ring die. My comment to them was I already paid top dollar for a die and didn't expect to get a response to buy another higher priced die to fix their design flaw. I had a few experiences like this with Redding and have jumped off the Redding bandwagon for pistol dies. Maybe they are the way to go for rifle.

I bought a Lee U Die and never looked back.

Amen, the EGW Lee U die is the only way to go, I use them for all pistol rounds.

[Justsomeguy]

You know... I never thought of Pledge as a case lube. I generally use Hornady One Shot and it works great even though I use standard Dillon carbide dies. It certainly took a lot of stress out of resizing cases and I can go a lot faster reloading on the 650 with One Shot than I could without it. I also have and use a GRX die on "once fired" and pick up brass, but you generally only have to do that once and the cases are good to go for as long as you use them after that with a decent sizing die. I still like my Dillon dies. They give enough case tension to the bullets and are easy to use and clean.

[gandog56]

Loading .40 S&W is not worth the aggravation unless running everything through the Redding G-Rx, including loaded ammo made previously or bought "remanufactured" and giving some failures to go into battery. I suggest getting the carbide version and then avoiding the lube requirement.

I have done all this and can offer that, for me, the U-die is counterproductive because it sizes .001 smaller. Yes, it has a radius to hide transitions, but who says you need more neck tension and an even larger bubble at the web area?

I use the dual ring on .45 ACP but only because of slightly larger lead bullets. I don't use lead in .40 S&W, so the special die isn't needed. The street price BTW is $100. It might actually work on .40 but would be a luxury until using lead.

What you're seeing now does no real harm IMO until rounds fail to go into battery or better yet, fail gauging. You really should use the G-Rx or gauge (or barrel) check EVERY round.

I only bother if I make a brass trade or scarf up some free range brass where I do not know what gun shot them from. My SIG P229 is fully supported and doesn't bulge the brass out at the bottom. (Unlike a Glock) The nice part is the Redding GR-x dies will fully resize .40 cal S&W, 10mm, and 357 SIG and I have guns to shoot them all.

Edited December 26, 2013 by gandog56