Whoops! Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) The shadow mag release is extended rearward for an easier press. The CZ-75B does not have to be modified for it to fit. However, the shadow mag release must be filed down on the back in an externally visible area for it to properly function with the 75b. After filing the back of the mag release to make it fit, which you wouldn't have to do in a factory Shadow frame, is it a legal part to be used in production? If not, can the frame of the CZ-75b be modified to replicate that of a shadow mag release opening and then be legal with the stock shadow mag release? Edited November 6, 2013 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 HMMMM that's a good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Whoops, can you find language in Appendix D4 that specifically allows either modification? If you can't, then the answer's no to both questions..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) Of course I can, I wouldn't ask the question otherwise. 21.6 (cont) Exchange of minor EXTERNAL components offered on the specific model of gun or another approved gun from the same manufacturer except as specifically clarified below. Examples of external components which may only be replaced with OEM parts include (but are not limited to): magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties and triggers. Special Notes/Clarifications: • Barrels are considered “external parts” and are subject to specific restrictions in 21.4 and associated rulings. • A factory/OEM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun. • Externally-visible parts from “custom shop” guns will only be considered “OEM parts” if the customshop gun is on the NROI list of approved Production guns. The shadow mag release is an OEM part on an approved version of the CZ, the question is if it remains OEM after it has been filed to fit a regular CZ-75. Then the question also arises, is fitting the OEM part, customizing . . . The immediately most reasonable explanation would be no, a lot of OEM parts have to be fitted to work. But, in this case, the fitting to the CZ-75 b is vastly different. The question is also if a CZ-75 frame can be made into an OEM shadow frame if the part ceases to be an OEM mag release after being fitted to another approved version. Edited November 7, 2013 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Whoops, my interpretation of reading that is that drop in parts are legal -- parts that require modification of the frame are definitely out, and if and adjustment that's more than fitting is required on the replacement part, then that's likely out too.... Once you modify the mag release to fit the 75, will it still fit the source gun, or will it be too small? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) It will fit and function in the shadow fine with the necessary metal filed off for the 75b. Edited November 7, 2013 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Either way you fit it (file the frame or the release) I don't think you gain a compeditive advantage over the Shadow. I would say this language permits it: "A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun." The rule says nothing about it being a "drop in" part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Devil's advocate mode on: The rule book is silent on modifying parts from other guns, therefore, per the language in D4 items 21 and 22, such modification is not permitted...... Tread carefully, and don't complain if an RM moves you to open..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I would complain if I got moved to open. I'm sure there's a few folks using shadow hammers that have been machined down to fit the narrower 75b as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 From a purely practical standpoint, there's no real reason anyone should be moved to open for this, the 75b will still have less of a competitive edge than the shadow thanks to the restriction on magwell flaring, which the shadow comes with from the factory. Not to mention the potential benefits of the full length guiderod, better trigger mechanism, and full-length frame . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Far too rational Zack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 There is an extended mag release available that fits the round hole in the 75B frame. I don't think it's as long as the shadow release but it was enough to solve my problems dropping the mag. I think it's off one of the 85 variants. I'd call CZC and discuss options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I would complain if I got moved to open. I'm sure there's a few folks using shadow hammers that have been machined down to fit the narrower 75b as well. Hmmm that's a good question there as I was told I couldn't relieve the hammer to clear the CZC sights I was using when I had a 75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 There is an extended mag release available that fits the round hole in the 75B frame. I don't think it's as long as the shadow release but it was enough to solve my problems dropping the mag. I think it's off one of the 85 variants. I'd call CZC and discuss options. Cz Custom doesn't seem to list it on their site, but going to the CZ website it appears to be the 85 Combat mag release, thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I would complain if I got moved to open. I'm sure there's a few folks using shadow hammers that have been machined down to fit the narrower 75b as well. Hmmm that's a good question there as I was told I couldn't relieve the hammer to clear the CZC sights I was using when I had a 75 Interesting. Perhaps machining the hammer narrower is 'not visible'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I was told I couldn't relieve the hammer to clear the CZC sights I was using when I had a 75 Told by whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I was told I couldn't relieve the hammer to clear the CZC sights I was using when I had a 75Told by whom? Amidon. Because it's a visible modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Amidon. Because it's a visible modification. OK, thank you for adding that. I think it's important that we identify the difference between official rulings from USPSA and speculation by X, Y, or Z expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) I think it would be a helpful to pin a thread regarding official rulings in X Division, what do you think? That way we could all share the info we gather in one place and avoid hammering Amidon with "can I do X to my Production gun?" emails all day every day. Edited November 8, 2013 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I don't think they are tecinally official until the end up in a front sight or minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Is there an online, searchable database of those rulings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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