Eye Cutter Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 shot an ipsc level II match yesterday at the old subic bay navy base in olongapo using my cz-85b. out of the 7 stages, i had several malfs in 3 stages, and those were all field courses! several times i experienced premature slide locks, those killer jams as vlad's where the empty case was still in the chamber and the next round pushing up. 1 more round in the magazine and the slide locking back already!!! my gad!!! really ruined a perfectly good shooting day!!! tried shifting my support hand lower on the grip so as not to hit the slide stop, support thumb floating and off the frame. etc. etc.!!! help!!! anybody out there who can diagnose these CZ problems!!!???!!! paging angus! paging matt! i'm using fiocchi brass loaded with S&B 124 gr fmj heads, 4.2 gr N320, OAL=1.142 in as per the VV reloading manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 Just an update, after I established that with a 10lb recoil I have no problems what so ever, I upped my load to around 138pf and replaced the recoil spring with a shockbuff and a 12lb spring from which I cliped a few coils to make it fit. I then shot a 7 stage (6 field courses and 1 classifier) with 0 problems. I cleaned my gun and this weekend I have been using it in a 3gun match but I did have 2 or 3 failures. However these failures though similar with my original one happen within the first couple of rounds in the mag and the mags are filled up with 15 rounds and HARD to load with the extra power mag springs. They push up really hard so I think that may be part of it right now. If the gun works with 10rds loaded I'm happy. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Eye Cutter, sounds like you are not hitting the slide stop, maybe you need to evaluate your problems like Vlad did and see where it goes. Check or change ammo OAL, recoil spring, extractor spring, mag springs, etc... I noticed all of my problems went away after I did the above, hope that helps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 just curious but why do you need extra power mag springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Eye Cutter, sounds like you are not hitting the slide stop, maybe you need to evaluate your problems like Vlad did and see where it goes. Check or change ammo OAL, recoil spring, extractor spring, mag springs, etc...I noticed all of my problems went away after I did the above, hope that helps.... MM: thanks for the help! all the springs in the CZ-85B are stock factory units. I have not changed them. It was suggested that I file the slide stop so the slide won't open anymore. I have a spare slide stop that I can do that and see. I asked CZ-UB and they said that the CZ can use 1.160in OAL. Which is the oal of Sellier & Bellot 9mm luger ammo. I'll try loading a shorter length and see where it goes. What OAL do you load to? Thanks! EC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Now that EC's CZ is currently in my hands (on loan, thanks doc!) you'll be hearing from me if the problem occurs. Vlad, I was just wondering, with the stuck-case-left-in-the-chamber problem, did you notice some lube getting into your extractor claw when you cleaned it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 just curious but why do you need extra power mag springs? May not need them in this case, but the stock mag springs are notoriously weak and lose tension quickly. I was trying to chase down the same problem vlad and EC had and bad mag springs was masking what was really going on. After I changed them out, I could easily diagnose what was happening. EC, I have been loading to 1.120 OAL with 147gr Zeros and it really helped feeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9MX Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Vlad, I was just wondering, with the stuck-case-left-in-the-chamber problem, did you notice some lube getting into your extractor claw when you cleaned it? I experienced this twice, once in practice. the 2nd incident occured after a hundred rounds or so. the thing is, it happened during a level 1 match, last stage, last target, and last round fired, giving me my one and only mike imho, it was more of the ammo at that particular incident. definitely not my grip, i'm a lefty, my stronghand thumb touches the safety and mates with my weak hand thumb, the latter doesn't touch the frame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 just curious but why do you need extra power mag springs? Well, I don't know that I NEED them. The symptoms of my problems were that the top round in the mag was moving foward as if dragged by the slide and given that my problem started as my original mag springs were aproaching their end of life I decided to buy new springs. As I shoot Production with only 10rd in the mags as per USPSA but I use 15rd mags I figured that the extra power springs will provide a bit of extra push without fully loading the mags. However, it may be that with the extrapower mags I get to much upward pressure when I do load them all the way and now I am pushing the top round too hard against the slide and getting it dragged forward anyway. I had one more failure during the second day of the 3gun match but I know that I limped wristed that one as I was shooting it one handed through a low port at a funny angle. I will report back if the gun works well in Production conditions from here forward. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 Now that EC's CZ is currently in my hands (on loan, thanks doc!) you'll be hearing from me if the problem occurs.Vlad, I was just wondering, with the stuck-case-left-in-the-chamber problem, did you notice some lube getting into your extractor claw when you cleaned it? Not really. What made the problem hard to deal with is that it would happen at the first mag from a clean gun or maybe one the last stage of a 7 stage match or anywhere in between. I do check my extractor when I clean the gun including taking it out, cleaning it, wipping it dry and putting it back in. With a clean gun, it is hard to see how I would get enough crud and oil in there after 2 rounds. I think it had to do with the load vs the spring ratio, but I'm not sure yet. I'm leaving it the way it is for a bit and see what develops. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I do check my extractor when I clean the gun including taking it out, cleaning it, wipping it dry and putting it back in. With a clean gun, it is hard to see how I would get enough crud and oil in there after 2 rounds. Man, you make it sound like it's real easy to take it out. Or, is it? Figured you just drive the pin out from the top of the slide? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 I do check my extractor when I clean the gun including taking it out, cleaning it, wipping it dry and putting it back in. With a clean gun, it is hard to see how I would get enough crud and oil in there after 2 rounds. Man, you make it sound like it's real easy to take it out. Or, is it? Figured you just drive the pin out from the top of the slide? Thanks. Oh yeah. Just drive the pin out from the top and the extractor and its spring are free. It is so easy there is no reason not to clean it as part of the normal cleanup. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 hey Vlad, anymore problems with your CZ? Mc_oliver used my CZ-85B in a level 1 match a couple of weeks ago and he also experienced several instances of premature slide locks. Is the slide stop of a 75 different from an 85? We were thinking that the slide stop hump is bigger in an 85 model that's why we're hitting it with the support hand thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 I wouldn't knwo about the differences. I know that when I broke mine, the replacement was slightly different then the original but I have no idea what the 85 uses. So far it seems that going to a lighter recoil spring cures my problems. I'm now running with a 10lb spring and a shock buff. So far I'm not seeing any wear on the shockbuff after about 500 rounds. I had replaced all the mag springs with extra power ones and that had reduce the error rate dramatically but I still got the jam every now and then until I went to the lighter spring. I was going to call it good if it worked for the whole 7 stage match today but it got canceled due to the repeat performance of Noah's flood or somthing like that. Apperently my fellow shooters want to see the targets through the rain or something. Whimps. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 I was going to call it good if it worked for the whole 7 stage match today but it got canceled due to the repeat performance of Noah's flood or somthing like that. Apperently my fellow shooters want to see the targets through the rain or something. Whimps.Vlad Rebuilding the match every 1/2 hour due to wind gusts knocking it down is not my cup of tea.... We'll be running five or six stages in two weeks if you want to drive all the way down to the sticks to get your fix..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Hey .. I would have been out there with the wet targets myself, but I admit that today was pretty bad. I keep on trying to make it to your match but stuff keeps on coming up. Heck, my best match performance ever was at your match so now I want to see if I can do it again Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper 7 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 I think Sam is on to your problem. I just did this on a friend's new 75B 9mm, on my old-stlye 75 9mm and my 75B SA .40 I have found that the large flat surface on the underside of the slide (area directly under the firing pin running back to back of slide) tends to come from the factory with a rough machined surface. The friction between this surface and the next round tends to pull the next round in the mag forward as the top round is being chambered. This problem usually manifests itself in stovepipe FTF where the nose of this bullet pushes the nose of the the feeding round up. In your case this round may be interfering with your ejecting brass. This problem can also cause mags which do not drop free. (and when removed, reveal a round half-way out along the mag lips and thus rubbing on the front of the frame) Polish this area with 320 grit wet sandpaper and oil, then 600 grit wet sandpaper and oil until it is silky smooth and your problem may go away. Remember to flush and clean your slide thoroughly. Good shooting. PS http://p201.ezboard.com/fczechpistols82792...picID=209.topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 The CZ 75 series of guns are pretty rough inside a lot of polishing will take away the problems. I do quite a few of them Id be glad to help out . Jim Anglin Sailors custom Pistols jjanglin@msn.com 402 451 0797 cell/shop 402 650 5190 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 you guys are right. the underside is quite rough with a lot of swirls and other tool marks. will get out the dremel and flitz to polish the underside of the slide and see how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9MX Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 .This problem can also cause mags which do not drop free. (and when removed, reveal a round half-way out along the mag lips and thus rubbing on the front of the frame) i too have experienced this from time to time. i thought it was the magazine eye cutter, keep me posted please. might as well polish my slide's underside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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