1911 High Thumb or Low Thumb

[Flexmoney]

Pac-Man has a point. There are always different ways to an end.

While many except one method as the preferred, we ought to be careful in preaching that one method is the only way.

Rhino makes a good point too.

[Run n Gun]

I think this whole “thumb on the safety” thing, while REALLY big in tactical circles, is just a passing fad. It’s a little more than the “trick of the day”, more like “trick of the decade” and will go the way of shooting with the weak hand index finger in front of the trigger guard and the Weaver and Chapman stances.

The reasons these things catch on is that they work very well… for SOME of us. But as always, it’s the timer and the scorecard that tell the tale.

Maybe the manufacturers will start offering “normal” thumb safeties once again instead of those HUGH “*thumb rest [generic]*” safeties currently on 1911s. It took some digging but I finally found a regular thumb safety and ordered it for my gun, it’ll be here next week!

Ed

[Duane Thomas]

There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. I call these two techniques "thumb over thumb" and "straight thumbs."

THUMB OVER THUMB PRO:

Is a universal technique that will work with any handgun, 1911, Glock, SIG, revolver, etc. Gets the thumbs down and out of the way so they're not banging off slide stops and such.

Is easy to learn and execute, especially for new shooters.

Will positively depress the grip safety on a 1911 with no need to deactivate or sensitize it.

THUMB OVER THUMB CON:

Because it requires curling down the master hand thumb and trapping it with the support hand thumb, there is a real tendency to press down with the thumbs, i.e. make a fist, especially with the support hand. This can lead to inconsistent sight tracking and poor accuracy, especially in rapid fire.

Allows more muzzle flip than straight thumbs.

Requires thousands of reps before flipping off the thumb safety during the draw becomes an automatic reaction.

STRAIGHT THUMBS PRO:

Allows a much more neutral grip, with correspondingly better accuracy, especially in rapid fire.

Allows hyperextending the support hand wrist forward which greatly cuts down on muzzle flip.

Riding the thumb on the safety lever automatically disengages it during the draw with no need for conscious thought, or a separate movement, on the shooter's part.

STRAIGHT THUMBS CON:

Is not a universal technique. Works best with the 1911 (though God knows people use it, some quite well, with other guns). On a Glock, the heel of the support hand, pressing up against the slide stop lever, can cause the action to lock open with rounds still in the magazine. Can depress the slide stop on a SIG, causing the gun to not lock open when empty. Does not work well with revolvers.

Can be difficult for new shooters to learn. An integral part of the technique is hyperextending the support hand wrist forward. It's amazing how many people's wrists won't bend that far. New shooters tend to find this technique uncomortable to execute, and their grip is so poor their hands often break apart under recoil.

Will probably require deactivating or sensitizing the grip safety on a 1911.

[Duane Thomas]

I think this whole “thumb on the safety” thing, while REALLY big in tactical circles, is just a passing fad. It’s a little more than the “trick of the day”, more like “trick of the decade” and will go the way of shooting with the weak hand index finger in front of the trigger guard and the Weaver and Chapman stances.

It's been going on a lot longer than a decade. I have a copy of the Outdoor Life Complete Book of Shooting. Jeff Cooper wrote the handgun portion. There is a photo in that book of some of the top shooters of the day. To a man, every one of them using a 1911 is riding the safety lever. The publication date on this book is 1965.

The reasons these things catch on is that they work very well… for SOME of us. But as always, it’s the timer and the scorecard that tell the tale.

And it does tell the tale. Every top shooter in the world uses that "fad" riding the thumb safety method.

[Tri Burst]

Thank you Duane.

[Ken Kwiat]

What Duane said...

One comment -- the stright thumbs is how I was taught and still shoot. As I have shorter fingers, the other Con to me was exactly what Flex mentioned -- a tendancy to impede the slide ("riding the slide") with my thumb. It took another shooter watching me to correctly diagnose what the heck I was doing. The fix? I now have thumb shields on all my competition guns.

[Duane Thomas]

I have a copy of the Outdoor Life Complete Book of Shooting. Jeff Cooper wrote the handgun portion. There is a photo in that book of some of the top shooters of the day. To a man, every one of them using a 1911 is riding the safety lever.

Just checked out that book again last night, and I should offer a correction to my previous statement. On page 297 there are photos of Thell Reed, Elden Carl, Jack Weaver, John Plahn and Ray Chapman. Weaver is shooting a revolver. Carl and Plahn are shot from the left front, we can see their thumbs and they are indeed riding the thumb safety. Reed and Chapman are shot from the right front, and thus we can't see their thumbs - but c'mon you know they're riding the thumb safety on the other side of the gun(s).

I might mention, I've always found that photo of Elden Carl ("combat champion of 1962" - whatever that means) fascinating. His stance is a textbook perfect Modern Isosceles, complete with true straight thumbs grip as opposed to the "Gunsite grip," as I call it, Plahn is using. If Cooper had found Carl more impressive than Weaver, we could've had the Modern Isosceles stance and straight thumbs grip....in 1962!