Maximum Time Rule?

[Jim Norman]

Communication breakdown.

Isn't there a song there somewhere?

We can certainly agree that running a different type of match than your customers expect, a radically different type, is a recipe for if not disaster, at the very least disgruntlement.

On occasion we have run a special match, very rare, but we've done it, we have also made every attempt to make sure that all of our people are aware of it.

[Gary Stevens]

I have watched several folks run stages that took an extra amount of time. One had a bad leg and used a cane. He would shoot, take his cane and doing the best he could (read that slowly) move to the next position where the process would be repeated until finished. I shook his hand when he finished because I admired his never give up attitude.

I watched a fellow at the Alabama match a couple of years ago who had a crippled support arm. He shot the entire match strong hand only using a reloading method that worked for him and was safe.

I have watched a lot of shooters who have fought through their particular issues to continue to compete in USPSA and I respect them for it. If we had more shooters with that type of attitude, I believe our sport would be better for it.

[MadMadWorld]

I have watched several folks run stages that took an extra amount of time. One had a bad leg and used a cane. He would shoot, take his cane and doing the best he could (read that slowly) move to the next position where the process would be repeated until finished. I shook his hand when he finished because I admired his never give up attitude.

I watched a fellow at the Alabama match a couple of years ago who had a crippled support arm. He shot the entire match strong hand only using a reloading method that worked for him and was safe.

I have watched a lot of shooters who have fought through their particular issues to continue to compete in USPSA and I respect them for it. If we had more shooters with that type of attitude, I believe our sport would be better for it.

That is good to hear. I have seen that a few times at local matches and the shooters who show up and push their ability to their personal max are great to be around. The laughs and good feelings help.

Overall, I agree with the sentiment that the slow and/or newer shooter isn't an issue-we need them to keep showing up to grow the sport. Discouraging them at the start isn't well. The real issue is when you have a squad of twelve and the same two people are down range resetting.

[Allfat]

Guys, you are mixing Apples and go-karts here. USPSA is NOT Pro-Am Steel.

Pro-Am is set up with a par time that supposedly no one or only the very best of the very best can get all the targets down in. Part of the attrraction is the presure. The scoring is simple, number of targets down. More targets down means better placement, most down means a win. No need to calulate anything. Just total the targets.

USPSA has hit factor scoring except for Fixed Time Standards. You can't know who is ahead until all the shooters have shot. Yes, you can compare HF with your buddy, but you won't know where you stand until the last scores are in.

Maximum time makes Pro-Am what it is and it is FUN. HF makes USPSA what it is and it is FUN. DIfferent kinds of fun, different stressors to a point, but both a re fun and have their place in the shooting world.

I understand the differences, but just wanted to draw the parallel that shooting with a par time can drain the fun out of USPSA if it is used in every stage. If you start using it on every stage, you get away from using HF and more towards pure points, much like the Pro-Am steel down scoring.

We just did that at a local club too. (Maybe it's the same club? Or, maybe not.) I skipped that match, but heard mixed, mostly mediocre reviews.

Yes, I am sure it was the same club, TCGC. Majority of people there were saying they would not have showed up if they had known they were running a Pro-Am style match in lieu of their regularly scheduled USPSA match.

[JKSNIPER]

How about we just get everyone not involved in the COF to tape and reset.. That will speed things up. Having a time limit will not be conducive for older or handicapped shooters.... And could be considered discrimination... An elegant solution to a non-existent problem. The match will take as long as it takes.

This.

We have a shooter thats confined to a wheel chair. He does his best and in my book he can take as long as he wants to finish the COF.

From the lighter side of things, the ones that are taking the longest to finish the stage are getting their moneys worth.

Reminds me of the saying "I don't play golf much but when I do I play a lot of it."

I agree with others about older/handicapped shooters....its already difficult for them to just come out and shoot with everyone (they're usually the best attitude wise on the range) and have fun...now we're going to "gong" them out when they take a little longer 'cos theres a few guys who are always in a hurry?

The matches here are not exactly attended by large #'s of people...doing this will hurt attendance more (IMHO)

Not a good idea.

[Jim Norman]

I've posted a couple times here, but I think that the problem, if there is one can be solved easily. The solution lies in match management or more properly Squad Management. If the RO and CRO get ttheir people moving, there is really no need for a time limit. If you plan how to run a stage. At ULSC, the RO should have a plan on where the scoring will start and the squad should be ready to tape and set. If the RO/CRO is not doing his job, the shortest fastest stage in the match can become the longest slowest stage. With a local match, it is difficult as you don't generally have dedicated staff and you have people that all want to shoot together as a group, sometimes they'll be fantastic and other times you will find that the squad is just lolling about. They wander off, they are too busy kibitzing as opposed to working, Hey we all go to the match to have a good time with friends. Sadly there are a few people that will B & M about things running slowly, but when looked at from teh 30,000 foot view turn out to be the actual problem. It is not the older gent that takes 2 minutes to shoot a stage, but ratehr the squad that takes 4 minutes to reset that slows the match. Of course you can't have a whole squad of the 'older' gents.

[JKSNIPER]

Agreed Jim.

You put all us old retired guys with bad backs on the same squad and we'll have fun BSing around but we don't move all that fast and bending over to pick up that steel?

Fuggedaboudit.

Throw some high energy eager beavers in with the old guys and they can do the running around and who knows....if the young guys actually open up the 6" between their ears they might actually learn something from those old slow guys.

[dauntedfuture]

At my old club in El Paso we would do a 120 second max time on our stages to keep things going. Keep in mind that the average time for a stage was 40 seconds or so. We would have guys show up with guns that would not run or shotguns that would not take down the steel and they would keep shooting, and shooting, and shooting, and shooting. It gets hot in the summer, like 110+ and we wanted to get done and get beer down before it got too hot.

[kita]

The dude in the wheelchair doesn't seem to have any trouble making competitive times.