How to find the most accurate load?

[CocoBolo]

I recently made a trip to a gun show and picked up sevral XDM off the display table. The slide to frame fit was SLOPPY, pressing down on the barrel hood had lots of movement, even the fit of the end of the barrel was lose. I would not have bought any of them and didn't.

But back to the question at hand. Darrel has the right info, and he has spent a ton of time testing.

I'm a fan of the Bayou Bullets, they work great in everything, run clean as well. I prefer the 135gr for production shooting. I have not done extensive testing for accuracy, but I can say that Clays don't work in my guns for 9 mm, darn it shoots soft but accuracy isn't there. N320 and WST are my go to powders for the Bayou's.

147gr Zeros in my CZ Shadow loaded out 1.145 (that is long for a CZ) loaded with 3.8gr of N320 have been the most accurate, but again I prefer the pulse of the 135gr Bayou. Yes and I likem hot, you could go 3.6gr.

[zdog]

I recently made a trip to a gun show and picked up sevral XDM off the display table. The slide to frame fit was SLOPPY, pressing down on the barrel hood had lots of movement, even the fit of the end of the barrel was lose. I would not have bought any of them and didn't.

But back to the question at hand. Darrel has the right info, and he has spent a ton of time testing.

I'm a fan of the Bayou Bullets, they work great in everything, run clean as well. I prefer the 135gr for production shooting. I have not done extensive testing for accuracy, but I can say that Clays don't work in my guns for 9 mm, darn it shoots soft but accuracy isn't there. N320 and WST are my go to powders for the Bayou's.

147gr Zeros in my CZ Shadow loaded out 1.145 (that is long for a CZ) loaded with 3.8gr of N320 have been the most accurate, but again I prefer the pulse of the 135gr Bayou. Yes and I likem hot, you could go 3.6gr.

Tell me more about the movement when you press down on the barrel hood. I have a XD9 5 inch that springfield changed the barrel on for me and it has what I consider a lot of movement. The XDM9 that I just bought from Springer has some movement. Is this going to affect accuracy?

Thanks,

zdog

[CocoBolo]

Tell me more about the movement when you press down on the barrel hood. I have a XD9 5 inch that springfield changed the barrel on for me and it has what I consider a lot of movement. The XDM9 that I just bought from Springer has some movement. Is this going to affect accuracy?

Thanks,

zdog

Zdog - Getting a good tight lockup puts the barrel slide and sights is the same alignment every time. If you press down on the hood and it moves its not locked in tight. The worst is a lose barrel bushing. The slide on one of my open guns got some ware on it, and the cone comp had a little play and the accuracy when to h in a handbasket.

The reality is that you are not going to get the accuracy of a $3,000 custom gun out of an off the shelf $600 gun, unless you get darn lucky. I'm spoiled I have mostly custom guns, a couple CZ's and they are tight and a couple Sigs again tight.

The question becomes is it accurate enough for what you do with it? 2" or 3" at 25 yards means you can still knock down a plate a 25 yards but if it opens up to 4" well you might be in trouble.

Put the thing on a rest and shoot a couple groups at 25 yards if it is accurate enough your good.

[Hammbone]

1. I make a round long where the ogive touches the lands of the rifling. I take the barrel out, put the round in and try to twist it, I decrease the overall length until the round twist freely meaning that the bullet ogive isn't touching the lands, and the case is headspacing in the barrel. I then decrease the overall length another .010 inch then start my loading from there.

I did this experiment last night with my 147gr Berry's RN in my Beretta M9 (stock barrel). What I found out is that my OAL needs to be 1.302 for the ogive of the bullet to start touching the rifling. Obviously this would be WAY to long. It would give me 0.1185" of bullet in the case and 0.5515" sticking out...not to mention the OAL would be 0.142" longer than the SAAMI spec. Is this something that would be tighter on a Bar-Sto or KKM barrel?

I'm working on making a batch of test ammo of these bullets with 3.3gr TG at 1.145", 1.135"...and a 3rd OAL. Haven't figured out if I should go with 1.155" or 1.125". Perhaps I'll do both? I have already tested accuracy at 1.145" and it was pretty bad. I made more at this length just to have a comprehensive comparative study all in one batch.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1. I make a round long where the ogive touches the lands of the rifling.

my OAL needs to be 1.302 for the bullet to touch the rifling.

I'm working on 3.3gr TG at 1.145", 1.135

I tested accuracy at 1.145" and it was pretty bad.

1. That 1.302" must be an error??

2. Testing at 1.145 and 1.135 sounds like a Great Idea

3. How bad was 1.145" (What distance, how many shots and how large was the group?)

[Hammbone]

1. I make a round long where the ogive touches the lands of the rifling.

my OAL needs to be 1.302 for the bullet to touch the rifling.

I'm working on 3.3gr TG at 1.145", 1.135

I tested accuracy at 1.145" and it was pretty bad.

1. That 1.302" must be an error??

Not a typo. But I didn't do the test exactly as prescribed. Instead, with the barrel vertical (muzzle down) I dropped a bullet in gently. Then I measured from the edge of the barrel to the back of the bullet...and did all the math accordingly to arrive at my 1.302". If I get a chance tonight, I'll load one extra long and see if I can get it to catch on the rifling. Maybe I'll start at a silly long number, like 1.180 and start getting shorter from there (provided it catches when I twist it).

2. Testing at 1.145 and 1.135 sounds like a Great Idea

3. How bad was 1.145" (What distance, how many shots and how large was the group?)

Like 4"+ groups at 15yrds on a bench (gun was not fixtured) and POI was low. At first I thought it was me doing something stupid. But I followed up with some 124gr rounds w/HS-6 and I had about a 1.5" group of 5 rounds right in the center of the bullseye.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Yes, 4" at 15 yards is BAD - I like 1.5" group much better. Is there a reason you're

not going to shoot HS6 instead? Sounds like a nice load.

Have you tried heavier or lighter bullets, or different brand bullets?

[Hammbone]

Yes, 4" at 15 yards is BAD - I like 1.5" group much better. Is there a reason you're

not going to shoot HS6 instead? Sounds like a nice load.

Have you tried heavier or lighter bullets, or different brand bullets?

I've only been reloading for about 6mo now. I do most of my shooting at a small indoor club once a week, doing slow target shooting. There are two rules there that I'm really trying to obide by (although I'm finding most people ignore them). Those rules are:

1) Nothing over 1,000fps (due to back-stop capabilities)

2) No jacketed bullets (Crappiest rule ever - and I ALWAYS see copper jackets all over the floor)

Due to these two rules, I started loading using 147gr (bought Berry's because they're cheap) and HS-6. Why HS-6? At the time, I had read some good things about it.

Upon getting into reading post here on BE, I time and time again read about TG! So, I picked some up at a show, a long with some 124gr Frontier plated bullets.

Yes, 124gr with HS-6 is an awesome load for accuracy - which happens to be what I care about being that I only shoot at paper bullseye targets. But to get a load that works nice with that combo, I violate rule number (1). Now I have a pound of TG and would like to make it work.

I've only been into this shooting thing for about a year...but I have always had a thirst for tinkering and learning. Most of my tinkering has been on hot rods and race cars and automated manufacturing equipment. It's only a matter of time before I've tinkered with EVERY bullet and EVERY powder. This is a data collection project for me. ...and I'll drive myself nuts doing it.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Is there a reason you're

not going to shoot HS6 instead?

Yes, 124gr with HS-6 is an awesome load for accuracy - which happens to be what I care about being that I only shoot at paper bullseye targets. Now I have a pound of TG and would like to make it work.

Sounds to me like you have answered your own original question - how do you get an accurate load?

By using HS6. Your gun might not like TG. But, to find out, you'd have to experiment with different

OALs and bullets and powder charges. Good luck with it.

[Hammbone]

Ah yes, but I violate club rule #1 with that load.

I'm going to try a few different OAL's with TG and see what happens. I might even try to pick up some Bayou or Precision bullets.

[Hammbone]

...the best powder for 9mm is Power Pistol, and N330 or N340. WSF is a good 9mm powder but if you are looking for repeatable accuracy 5.8 - 6.0 of Power Pistol....

THANK YOU DARRELL!! Right on the money! Based on this post alone, I went out and picked up a pound of Power Pistol. This is the target I produced:

This is 124gr Frontier Plated w/5.8gr Power PIstol at 1.155" OAL. 10 rounds at 15yds from a bench.

[Darrell]

...the best powder for 9mm is Power Pistol, and N330 or N340. WSF is a good 9mm powder but if you are looking for repeatable accuracy 5.8 - 6.0 of Power Pistol....

THANK YOU DARRELL!! Right on the money! Based on this post alone, I went out and picked up a pound of Power Pistol. This is the target I produced:

This is 124gr Frontier Plated w/5.8gr Power PIstol at 1.155" OAL. 10 rounds at 15yds from a bench.

Very nice group, the couple of flyers may be due to plated bullets, jacketed should produce one hole like the other eight did. It did in my guns. Power pistol is great, but loud as hell. Worked up loads in Glock, M&P, and Shadow, funny how a couple of tenths of a grain makes a difference in different guns.

[Hammbone]

...the best powder for 9mm is Power Pistol, and N330 or N340. WSF is a good 9mm powder but if you are looking for repeatable accuracy 5.8 - 6.0 of Power Pistol....

THANK YOU DARRELL!! Right on the money! Based on this post alone, I went out and picked up a pound of Power Pistol. This is the target I produced:

This is 124gr Frontier Plated w/5.8gr Power PIstol at 1.155" OAL. 10 rounds at 15yds from a bench.

Very nice group, the couple of flyers may be due to plated bullets, jacketed should produce one hole like the other eight did. It did in my guns. Power pistol is great, but loud as hell. Worked up loads in Glock, M&P, and Shadow, funny how a couple of tenths of a grain makes a difference in different guns.

I didn't know there was an inherent issue with plated bullets. Why? Also, I know you shoot a lot of Bayou's...any flyer issues with those?

Yes, I noticed the PP is a bit on the noisy side. But I almost don't care, given the accuracy. These 124gr's were going 1120 on average. How does PP perform down at a lower PF (say 130, or 1050fps-ish)?

[Darrell]

A slower powder like P.P., blue dot, hs6, N340 perform best when loaded near max. Doesn't perform well at lower charge rates. You need a faster powder that works for the power factor/velocity you want to shoot a certain bullet at. Say you are looking for 1100 fps with a 125 gr bullet, look at load data in the books and see what powder is near max at 1100 fps. Start 10% less and work up. Some powders work better for lead, and aren't accurate with jacketed and vise versa, my current project is to test 160gr bayou's with WST. That powder didn't perform well for me in 9mm in the past with lighter bullets, but it may work with the 160's. I'm also going to use it with .38 wadcutters that weigh 140gr. Someone else is reporting excellent 50 yd groups with WST but their barrel twist rate is 1 in 14"' my smiths are 1 in 18 3/4".