Terrible accuracy! 147gr Berry's, Titegroup and Glock 34

[LexTalionis]

I'm not going to get into a debate, but the way I see it is the FCD is a crutch for improper setting of your dies. The carbide ring smooths out the brass and the bullet to yes aid in reliability of feeding in semi-autos but at the cost of accuracy due to deformation of a bullet. I'll state that this only applies only to lead and plated.

This may be true to some, but it is not a universal rule. I've shot close to 40,000 cast lead bullets in the last two years and use an FCD regularly. There is more to the equation than just the FCD.

To the OP, first thing I would do is check your crimp, it could be too tight and is tearing up the plating.

Second thing I would change is your powder. Switch to something slower (power pistol, wsf, etc.) You are probably pushing the bullet too fast and the rifling is tearing up the plating (hence the bad accuracy).

[Bansheex]

Well just as a follow up, I loaded the 147gr Berrys using 3.7grs of Bullseye at 1.14 OAL. They shoy great and very accurate out of my XDM. Low to medum recoil, dot stayed to the plates. Goint to stick with this load for a while.

I guess I could drop the charge a tiny bit if I wanted.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Bansheex

[usmc0326]

I have personally done accuracy testing with several glock factory barrels fired offhand, benched and ransom rest. I can tell you that what works in one factory glock may not work in another. Just like with any other factory barrel they are made for high production numbers, not bullseye shooting. The BEST I got out of any factory glock barrel was 1.75 inches for 10 shot groups at 25 yards with lots of hand load testing. I found that the bullet type has the largest affect on accuracy. Example winchester 115gr bullets have good weight consistency but the bearing length and an X factor make them shoot between 5 inch groups and 3 inch groups,Sierra and hornady were at the best accuracy end of things. But you really have to try each bullet/ powder OAL/ primer / brass to find a good load for YOUR gun, if you get a Barsto, or wilson barrel you will NOT regret it. Even marginal loads still shoot 2 inch groups, stellar ammo shoots a 1 inch hole. I am doing more accuracy testing with my new KKM gunsmith fit barrel this weekend so we will see what just changing the barrel and keeping the same ammo does (previously 1.9 inch average at 25yds with montana gold and power pistol). I have also found that tite group is very accurate with the correct bullet, but burns a little to fast (snappy recoil).

[fireman489]

usmc0326, Im interested to hear of you testings. I have been considering a custom barrel for my Glock 34.....

[lugnut]

I have also found that tite group is very accurate with the correct bullet, but burns a little to fast (snappy recoil).

Hmmm that is odd. I've found fast powder and heavy bullets offers the softest shooing loads... It's slow powder that is snappy.

[Herby]

All, OP here wanted to provide an update. I think I found the problem and the solution. After calling Berry's and hearing that some Glock barrels do not agree with the plated bullets, I was resigned to getting a Lone Wolf or KKM barrel. Before I placed an order, I decided to do one more set of tests with OAL.

I wanted to push the OAL all the way to the max and see if this would have the usual increase in accuracy that is commonly observed. Just some background info for those that have asked:

- I used a bullet puller to confirm that there was no deformation whatsoever to the plating due to crimp

- I checked consistency of powder charge and this was fine

- I am using all Dillon 9mm dies, with a Dillon 650.

So I reloaded a bunch of rounds at 1.160, 1.165 and 1.170. Well, I tried to reload at these OAL, but got a lot of variation, more on that later. In any case, I measured length of every round reloaded, and grouped them into these three categories. Here are the results. Looks like at 1.170, the accuracy tightened back up to my expected accuracy. These are 10 shot groups, at 10 yards, off hand.

1.169-1.171 OAL

And representative group at OAL of 1.165" or anything less

I tried to go longer, out to 1.174 ish, and the chamber of the Glock will take it no problem, but accuracy didn't improve and I started running into issued with the rounds binding in the mag. 1.170" +- 0.001" is no issue in the mags, I tested over 100 rounds and ran fine.

So it looks like the issue was OAL, and I'm very happy to have solved this without resorting to aftermarket barrels or dumping the bullets and switching to another brand. There is one other issue that I'm running into however. Its the consistency of the OAL that I'm able to achieve with the Dillon Dies.

In the process of doing this testing I was measuring every round by digital caliper to ensure OAL. I started seeing wild fluctuations in OAL. I'd have the seating die set to 1.170" and would produce rounds at 1.162" all the way to 1.178" with regularity. I tightened the seating die, made sure I had sufficient bell, and then resorted to measure the bullets themselves to check their consistency. I was impressed with the bullets, as they were all within .0005" at the most.

I started to notice that the bullets with the most OAL variation were coming out of the press with an indentation at the nose of the bullet. A bit of digging and googling led me to find that the stem in the Dillon seating die is a common issue with plated and lead bullets. Its curvature doesnt fit the contour of the round bullets very well and at the nose it has a hole roughly 1/8" in diameter. So the nose of the bullet gets deformed by this hole by varying amounts as the loading resistance varies.

Another issue to resolve....

I used some JB weld and mold release to fill the stem and mold the shape of the Berry's 147gr in it. Will let it cure and report back if I'm able to achieve OAL consistency.

In any case, the accuracy issue with Berry's 147gr in the Glock 34 barrel is solved, but need to consistently load at 1.170 +- .001" now.

[usmc0326]

In any case, the accuracy issue with Berry's 147gr in the Glock 34 barrel is solved, but need to consistently load at 1.170 +- .001" now.

Keep in mind there may be a couple OAL combinations that get excellent accuracy. There seem to be OAL / velocity nodes for accuracy. Sometimes loading long, sometimes loading short can also get excellent results. Example I found that I get more consistent groups with fewer fliers with MG at shorter OAL's. Try chambering a few long loaded rounds, note how they can mar the bullet with the rifling. My production load used to be 1.170, I have since backed it down to 1.135 and seem to get more consistency with few fliers.

I also load with the 650. For minimal OAL variation make sure your using a thrust bearing on the shell plate. You have to bend the ejection bar that dumps the rounds into the bin on station 5 iirc, but it really helps along with cutting 1 coil of the shell plate detint spring.

usmc0326, Im interested to hear of you testings. I have been considering a custom barrel for my Glock 34.....

At this point unless you find something in stock order a Barsto gunsmith fit barrel. There isn't anything more accurate that I have found. The Marine Corps MEU(SOC) pistols have barsto barrels and shoot raged holes at 25 yards, so far I have yet to find a pistol I liked more with the exception of a couple 2011 limited guns.

Tests didn't happen today due to the ridiculous amounts of fog we had this am when I had time to go to the range. Hopefully I will get out tomorrow.

I have also found that tite group is very accurate with the correct bullet, but burns a little to fast (snappy recoil).

Hmmm that is odd. I've found fast powder and heavy bullets offers the softest shooing loads... It's slow powder that is snappy.

lug nut- Assuming your using the same bullet and switching powders I have found that to be the case. Like titegroup is in the top 15 for powder burn speed and some of the snappiest loads I have made were 115gr with titegroup. And the softest are N320 with 147's and power pistol.(slower burning powders with heavier bullets ). I guess it's hard to quantify recoil impulse "Feel" because it's based on your perception of the shot.

Edited February 3, 2013 by usmc0326

[Herby]

Keep in mind there may be a couple OAL combinations that get excellent accuracy. There seem to be OAL / velocity nodes for accuracy. Sometimes loading long, sometimes loading short can also get excellent results. Example I found that I get more consistent groups with fewer fliers with MG at shorter OAL's. Try chambering a few long loaded rounds, note how they can mar the bullet with the rifling. My production load used to be 1.170, I have since backed it down to 1.135 and seem to get more consistency with few fliers.

In a Glock 9mm chamber loading out to even 1.180" the round nose bullets I am using do not touch the rifling, much less get marred by it. At 1.170" you're not even close. The limit to OAL with Glocks is no question the mags. Above 1.171" they potentially bind when you load more than a few rounds.

[usmc0326]

I guess it depends on which rounds you use. IIRC Montana gold 147 tmj, 124 JHP and a couple others showed a single mark loading 1.170.

[Doc Hunter]

Not all plated bullets are the same - you just found that out.

[njl]

Keep in mind there may be a couple OAL combinations that get excellent accuracy. There seem to be OAL / velocity nodes for accuracy. Sometimes loading long, sometimes loading short can also get excellent results. Example I found that I get more consistent groups with fewer fliers with MG at shorter OAL's. Try chambering a few long loaded rounds, note how they can mar the bullet with the rifling. My production load used to be 1.170, I have since backed it down to 1.135 and seem to get more consistency with few fliers.

In a Glock 9mm chamber loading out to even 1.180" the round nose bullets I am using do not touch the rifling, much less get marred by it. At 1.170" you're not even close. The limit to OAL with Glocks is no question the mags. Above 1.171" they potentially bind when you load more than a few rounds.

That entirely depends on the bullets. I've got some 9mm 130gr BBI that can't be loaded very long at all for my Glocks, and in the .45acp Glocks, 185gr JHP also have to be loaded well below max OAL to keep from hitting the rifling.

[Herby]

Keep in mind there may be a couple OAL combinations that get excellent accuracy. There seem to be OAL / velocity nodes for accuracy. Sometimes loading long, sometimes loading short can also get excellent results. Example I found that I get more consistent groups with fewer fliers with MG at shorter OAL's. Try chambering a few long loaded rounds, note how they can mar the bullet with the rifling. My production load used to be 1.170, I have since backed it down to 1.135 and seem to get more consistency with few fliers.

In a Glock 9mm chamber loading out to even 1.180" the round nose bullets I am using do not touch the rifling, much less get marred by it. At 1.170" you're not even close. The limit to OAL with Glocks is no question the mags. Above 1.171" they potentially bind when you load more than a few rounds.

That entirely depends on the bullets. I've got some 9mm 130gr BBI that can't be loaded very long at all for my Glocks, and in the .45acp Glocks, 185gr JHP also have to be loaded well below max OAL to keep from hitting the rifling.

'

That's why I said " the round nose bullets I am using do not touch the rifling". Of course it is dependent on the shape of the bullet. If the bullet was long and pointy you could load it halfway down the barrel before contact was made with the rifling.