Significant sizing differences between headstamps?

[Oldgoat03]

I have been reloading for about a year. I got a new (to me) Dillon SDB and just loaded a couple hundred rounds of 9mm with Berry's 124gr plated FP and 4.2 gr W 231. I am loading to 1.067" COAL.

The issue:

I was checking COAL and spot testing by pressing some into bench to ensure they are properly seated I discovered to my alarm that there were several that I was able to push the bullet back into the case against the bench!

When looking for clues I noticed that the loads using cases with FC or Blazzer headstamp were the only ones that were loose. The WIN, RP and SB cases hold fine. Interestingly I recall I had to adjust seating depth between these same case types to ensure consistent COAL.

I checked some ammo that I had loaded a while back on my Lee 4 hole Classic Turret press and those same headstamps seem to be ok. These were all cycled through the Lee FCD.

Anyone else have this experience?

Is the seating die and crimp die that much different on the SDB than the Lee?

Or is my SDB just still not quite adjusted properly?

At this point I just pitched the offending headstamps into my brass recycle bin.

Your thoughts, experiences and advice are appreciated.

Bob

Edited December 17, 2012 by Oldgoat03

[Sarge]

This is a very well known issue. I learned this myself last year. FC and CCI family have thinner case walls. I was getting set back. I went to an EGW Undersized die and it works like magic. But the SDB will not give you any die options. That's the reason I have never considered the SDB when it came time to buy a press. I would not pitch that brass as it is high quality stuff to somebody who knows how to get it sized right.

[Sarge]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103799&view=findpost&p=1526221&hl=%22discovered+setback%22

[Oldgoat03]

Good info thanks. I'm begining to think I should sell the SDB and get a 550.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Bob, before you sell your SD, I've loaded 50,000 9mm rounds on my

SD over the years - using range brass - including FC & CCI, and

even S & B, etc. Some were 9mm minor - most were 9mm Major.

I've never had a problem with setback, or anything else.

[Oldgoat03]

Jack

I have to ask then as someone who is experienced do you have any ideas or suggestions regarding what may be causing the problem? I am wondering if my sizing die is still in spec because there is no adjustment...right?

Thanks again

Bob

Bob, before you sell your SD, I've loaded 50,000 9mm rounds on my

SD over the years - using range brass - including FC & CCI, and

even S & B, etc. Some were 9mm minor - most were 9mm Major.

I've never had a problem with setback, or anything else.

[Sarge]

Some might tell you to switch bullets to a moly coated version to give a little more traction and they are typically a tad bigger around. I think the moly's I used were .356. I load Montana Golds exclusively now and they will set back every time if I load them with a Dillon Sizer die.

I'm not saying this of Hi power Jack as he is not a novice reloader but many people will say they are not having problems with setback on their press only to find out later if they ACTUALLY check for it they find it.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I used to use 115 gr JHP MG's and a case full of HS6 powder,

and if there was any setback, it should have created a potentially

dangerous compressed load - I never experienced that, either.

Now using WAC & 124 gr MG bullets, so there's some room in

the case, but again I would think that any setback would have been

noticeable (louder noise, increased recoil, or something) - I've

never noticed anything like that in the past six years.

Just wondering if there's a difference between deliberately trying

to create a setback by pushing the bullet into the case, vs the

normal loading process of pushing the cartridge into the chamber

by the spring/slide process???

Is it possible that some bullets that can be manually pushed into

the case, just might be fine to shoot since they are not jammed

into the case during the normal loading process??? Possible??

Anyway, I'm off to the garage to try the pushing technique on

a few boxes of ammo I have loaded - I'll push as hard as I can,

esp with the CCI or the FC/Blazer cases. I'll report back in a

little while.

BTW, aren't there thousands of people reloading 9mm with SDs?

For many years? Many hundreds of thousands of rounds of 9mm?

Haven't seen much here for the past six years to suggest that we're

blowing ourselves up by using the SD Dillon dies to reload 9mm??

[Hi-Power Jack]

Well, Sarge is right, again.

I just checked for setback, and as Sarge suggested, I did find some.

After all these years, I realized that I had never actually checked any -

but didn't seem to be having a problem.

I checked 15 rounds of 9mm major loaded to 1.165 - 1.170" oal, and was

able to press two of the bullets in to 1.150" and 1.145". These were all

CCI, Blazer & FC cartridge cases. The two that setback were one FC

and one Blazer.

Then I checked 10 WW cases, and none set back at all.

Two out of 25 rounds is certainly significant.

I'll have to do more checking, and start doing that on a regular

basis as I'm chamber checking each round - will come up with

more statistically significant numbers over the next few weeks.

I know that setting back to 1.145" won't cause a problem that

could be dangerous - might affect accuracy/velocity a bit - I'd

have to check that also. (With my load of WAC & 124 gr MG JHP's-

it's possible that other loads could become dangerous).

But, if two pushed in to 1.145 and 1.150", it's certainly possible

that others are pushing in even further.

Will conduct more research and get back to you with results -

I'd like to add some feeding these rounds through the gun

normally, and measure for setback also - see if that's also

causing as much setback as pushing them as hard as I can,

manually.

In short, Sarge is correct - I have had setback and didn't realize

it since I've had no problem with it in the past and have never

taken the time to check it out.

Will check further, and get back to you on it.

[Oldgoat03]

Jack

I'm glad I brought this up and more importantly that you checked some of your FC cases. Better to find them prior to an accident. I like your idea of testing setback measurements after nornal cycling. Please do let us know what you find.

So what is your plan/remedy now with these Headstamps to ensure proper case bullet tension?

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Bob

[JimmyZip]

Bob,

If you don't want to sell your press, you can find a really cheap Partner Press from RCBS, and put a UDie in it and just run all your brass through it. It will solve your setback issues. I did this when I discovered the same issue. I now have zero issues with that and other issues too relating to case size. Not only will it cure setback, it will also insure you get that bulge out of all those cases from Glocks, and open guns.

[Oldgoat03]

I really like my SDB and don't really want to sell it. I hadn 't encoutered this problem before on my turret press and being pretty new to reloading I hadn't heard of a U die before now. From the context I will assume they are undersized compared to std sizing die? I will look into getting one and assuming its cheap enough I will save up and batch process that brass on my Lee single stage press as a simple and inexpensive remedy for otherwise unusable brass.

Thanks for more good info!

Bob

[PingJockey]

I really like my SDB and don't really want to sell it. I hadn 't encoutered this problem before on my turret press and being pretty new to reloading I hadn't heard of a U die before now. From the context I will assume they are undersized compared to std sizing die? I will look into getting one and assuming its cheap enough I will save up and batch process that brass on my Lee single stage press as a simple and inexpensive remedy for otherwise unusable brass.

Thanks for more good info!

Bob

Here is a link. http://www.egwguns.com/undersized-reloading-dies/undersized-reloading-dies/

[Sarge]

The Udie is less than $30 I think. Running it in a single stage press first will make the SDB run smooth as silk since the hard work is already done. Make sure to spray a little lube on the cases before running them through the Udie as dry cases will put quite a bit of strass on one of the small LEE single stage presses. Not to mention your Elbow.

[Sarge]

I just checked for setback, and as Sarge suggested, I did find some.

I know that setting back to 1.145" won't cause a problem that

could be dangerous - might affect accuracy/velocity a bit - I'd

have to check that also. (With my load of WAC & 124 gr MG JHP's-

it's possible that other loads could become dangerous).

In short, I have had setback and didn't realize

it since I've had no problem with it in the past and have never

taken the time to check it out.

I found set back the same way. By shear dumb luck. I was loading minor at the time and just grabbed one and pushed it against the bench and watched it go right inside the case! I was stunned as I had been loading these for two years or so and had never had a problem.

In minor loads I think some setback would be OK but in 9MAJOR loads some are running the ragged edge as it is. I think going from 1.165 to 1.145 could quickly become a dangerous situation. I think WAC is a lower pressure load than many other choices. Nonetheless, I will never load anything without a Udie being involved at some stage of the process.

Jack, I'm actually glad you discovered the setback. The occasional thread pops up where a case has blown and tore the gun and shooters hands up and a ten page thread debates what happened. I wonder how many times it was setback that the shooter had no idea about.