Upgrading 450 or sell and purchase 650

[roklock]

Hello,

First a little back ground...I currently reload only 40 SW, about 5K-7K annually on a fully upgraded 450 minus the 550B frame. This coming year I am going to be shooting and starting to reload .223 and probably 9mm in the near future as well. I am going to give 3gun a try in 2013 but on a limited basis (only local clubs 3-4 shoots)

Figuring the most .223 will be 2K-3K this first year. I already purchased a 1000 factory rounds to get me going (practice). So now I am having trouble deciding what to do.

I know the 650 and the case feeder would be great for the 40 SW but not sure if only doing 2K-3K with the rifle is worth all of the head aches (what I've read) when comparing change overs to a 550.

Cons of upgrading a 450 frame to a 550 frame?

Do I upgrade the 450 to a full fledged 550 or do I sell and purchase a 650?

[z40acp]

Sell the 450 and buy the 650 unless you can afford to have both. I have a 450, a 550 and a 650. I don't like changing over. I would like to get another 650.

[Jaxshooter]

In my opinion sell the 450 and buy a 650. Converting the 650 does not entail much more than converting a full fledged 550. I had a 550 that was setup to load 45 ACP and never changed it. The bulk of my loading at that time was done on a 650 (9mm, 38 SC and 40). I now have a 1050 for 9mm major the majority of my loading and all other calibers ( 4 ) are loaded on a 650. It takes me about 10 minutes to change calibers on the 650. Add another 5 -10 minutes if you are changing primer sizes.

[roklock]

Sell the 450 and buy the 650 unless you can afford to have both.

I will need to sell to acquire.

[bassochist]

sell the 450 and buy the 650.

[roklock]

How critical is a trimmer for the .223? Roughly how many times could I reload the brass from the 1000 factory ammo, I bought, before having to being concerned with purchasing a trimmer?

Just exploring options to delay out of pocket expenses.

Edited December 9, 2012 by roklock

[noylj]

This is a personal issue. I find that manual-indexing and only four stations makes for a crippled progressive press, so I never even considered the SDB, 450, or 550.

You may love only having four stations and prefer the manual indexing, in which case, you may be happier upgrading and getting a case collator.

Trimming is dependent on your rifle's chamber and the "hotness" of your loads. With a bolt action, you can neck size only (or use the Lee neck collet die) and go 3-4 loadings before you need to do a "full length" resize. With a semi-auto, you need to full-length resize every time and the guns, from my experience, seem to stretch the cases enough to call for trimming after 2-3 firings.

You will learn what your loading requires.

Then again, maybe you REALLY need a 1050 with its swaging station so you can shoot military cases.

[Mike in CT]

Hello,

While I load on the LNL, I can comment on the rifle loading learning curve. It is steep and tall. You just about have to (must) trim the first time you reload range brass, once trimmed and fired from you own rifle you can likely reload multiple times without trimming, but you may want to check each case (time consuming).

If any of your brass is range brass you likely have to check for crimped primers, then either swage or ream out the primer pocket (time consuming).

You will need to clean all the brass the first time, then choose a method of lubricated cases for deprime/resize/trim, then clean the cases again (time consuming) and if they pass all the measurement checks you can start to load them.

My advice would be to just buy your ammo and never have to deal with case prep, but if you have more time than money, and have the patience you can load it up. Just remember you will be running them through the press twice, you will need time and tools to swage or ream, and more tools to trim/debur/chamfer.

Dillion trimmer - fast $400

Dillion Swager - nice $100

Dies, etc, etc $100 or so?

How many rounds can you buy for that?

My experience was difficult, as I was using range brass and trying to size off the neck. I never was able to hold tolerances on range brass so I went to the dillion trimmer with sized the entire case, now they are all a nice 1.740.

I end up Swaging most of my brass just so they float through the press better.

Do some reading and if you have a buddy that can help you out your curve may be much easier.

Mike

[roklock]

My advice would be to just buy your ammo and never have to deal with case prep, but if you have more time than money, and have the patience you can load it up. Just remember you will be running them through the press twice, you will need time and tools to swage or ream, and more tools to trim/debur/chamfer.

Dillion trimmer - fast $400

Dillion Swager - nice $100

Dies, etc, etc $100 or so?

How many rounds can you buy for that?

Mike

Thanks for responding, I do have rifle reloading experience but all on a single stage and just for hunting rifles, (maybe 50-100 rounds per caliber per year). I could get 4-5 reloads and then I would just chuck them vs. trimming.

I don't plan to use range brass as I bought a 1000 rounds and will just gather these after a practice session to reload. Based on your numbers I could only buy 1500 rounds of ammo. Not a lot of shooting and I only have to eat that price once when buying the equipment to reload.

Based on your answer though I will spot check my brass after the initial firing to see if trimming is necessary right away. If I can get two or three out of them that should cover most of this year.

Edited December 9, 2012 by roklock

[Bwana Six-Gun]

I have a 650 and a 550. I use the 650 for .45 only and it is great, but I shoot a lot more than you are projecting. The 550 I use to load 9mm and .38 SP. The changeover is quick and easier than the 650. Also, if you are going to load .223, I find that the 550 drops more consistent charges and is better for rifle. I tried rifle on the 650 and it was more trouble than it was worth. I ended up using the 650 as a single stage to re-size and then sending through again for the other steps. Go to a 550 frame and you will be good unless you want to load more pistol than you are doing now.

[traderpats]

Another vote for the 650 here with some caveats. The 650 w/casefeeder (and dillon trimmer) is a monster of a time saver when processing brass. Just fill up the collator, pop in my "case prep" toolhead and go to town. Same thing when trimming, even more so. Saves time and my hands if processing lots of cases.

I bought mine used and was going to process my "stash" then resell the press and pickup a 550 for general day to day reloading. However after using the 650 I find the saving in time and effort when batch processing too much to my liking and will be keeping it. I don't know but in my opinion changing out conversions is ..... easy - peasy. I went to all small primer .45 acp so I wouldn't have to change out the primer system and minus that it's only a few parts. Takes what, maybe 15 minutes even taking your time if that? I wouldn't make change overs a factor in my decision unless doing a whole lot of small runs....

Edited December 11, 2012 by traderpats

[chevyoneton]

I am going to swim against the tide here and say go 550. I have no experience with a 650, none at all. But I have loaded 10s of thousands of rounds on my old 550B, mostly pistol but some .223. I am in the next couple of weeks finishing up a run of .38 Special and will be converting to run .223, for the first time in over a decade. I really (as in really, really) like the manual indexing and simplicity of the 550. From what you describe, 2-3K a year, I don't see where a 650 is really going to help that much and you are already familiar with the "manual of arms" of the 450/550, so why change now? For ME to change I would have to perceive enough need to jump ALL THE WAY to a 1050. But again, I have no experience with a 650 I am just a very satisfied 550B owner.

Edited December 11, 2012 by chevyoneton

[bfilbey]

I have been reloading for 30 years. Until recently all my rifle was done on a single stage press. I used to hand ream my primer pockets and hand trim, then went to a Lee trimmer in a drill. I now have a Dillon swadger and without a 1050 it is the way to go. (I bought a 1050 last year) I also have a Giraud trimmer.

I'll not argue the "best" way to reload your brass but even if you pick up your own you will pick up brass with crimped primers and have to deal with them.

My methodology prior to getting the 1050 was as follows:

Deprime

Swadge/ream primer pocket

check length (you will find pleny of brass shorter than recommended trim lengths) I bought several thousand of Lake City brass that had about half .010" to .012" shorter than recommended trim to length. I trimmed the half that needed it.

Lube and reload as usual in the 550 (mine is an old 550) or even batch load in the single stage

The Gracy, Giraud, and other designs which index off the shoulder require that the brass be resized prior to trimming. Therefore the deprime step above would be done with a FL sized die.

There are a number of clever fellows who have a Dillon trimmer mounted to their tool heads and can progressivly prep their brass then load it on another tool head. I have never tried it this way.

For the quantities you are dealing with I would resize and deprime in a single stage, swadge the primer pockets, and then run them through the 550. After the primer pockets are done once you can just run them through the 550. Just keep an eye on the length and trim when required.