Speed or accuracy with minor in SS.

[jbj]

Hey guys. I shot my third USPSA match yesterday (in 10 years) and I have a question.

First of all, I am shooting an STI Trojan in 9mm and I was just wondering which you place more importance on. Speed or trying to get all A's. I like the single stack class since I can hold 10 vs 8 with the major power factor.

I cleaned a stage or two, but I would say at the expensive of speed and it seems like the scores showed it. Then I went all out for speed on the last stage and ended up 10th including all classes (just on this one stage). I guess that pretty much answers my own question, but I thought I'd throw it out there for you guys with more experience.

Thanks everybody. This is a great site.

I'm sure that the whole speed vs accuracy argument has been asked many times, but could find anything specifically geared towards minor power factor in SS.

Edited October 21, 2012 by jbj

[Loves2Shoot]

A's fast. The score is points divided by time, so if you drop points, you have to shoot super duper duper duper fast just to break even.

[bbbean]

They have to balance. That said, if you're not getting 90% of your points, you should slow down and focus on your accuracy more. Speed will come, but it will primarily come from all the things you do besides shooting - stage breakdown, movement, getting in and out of position, etc.

Shooting minor also forces you to put more emphasis on accuracy. Cs and Ds are going to hurt you a lot more than the major shooters. There's a reason most people opt for major.

BB

[GorillaTactical]

Disclaimer: this is a generalization and not a consistent mathematical fact across all USPSA stages but.......in USPSA, generally, shooting a C is usually worth approx. +1/3 of a second for Minor shooters. So, if you can shoot 2 A's in a time less than the time it takes you to shoot an A-C+0.33, then you are better off shooting 2 A's. Likewise, if you can shoot an A-C+0.33 in a time less than A-A, you're better off shooting the A-C. Usually for minor shooters, the A-A is faster than the A-C+0.33.

Note that the time value of a point can and will change based on the HF of stage

Edited October 21, 2012 by GorillaTactical

[jbj]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. After looking over the scores a little more, I definitely think I need to pick up the speed and accept a few C's. I know the accuracy is there, so time to step up the speed and work on the stage breakdown. Also, shoot steel first, I shot the cardboard first, then found myself pausing just a second to see if the poppers were going to fall.

Thanks again guys.

[OskiATX]

Started getting back into USPSA earlier this year after a few year hiatus and was in minor SS just like you. I'd have to agree with Gorilla's assessment... I beat a lot of people on stages when I got my AA's and got my butt whooped when I hit AC. If I could pick up those AC hits 1/3 second faster I would try to push the speed envelope a bit but I'm just not fast enough quite yet.

[mattwaage]

Another little gaming advice.

On short stages such as classifiers I have found accuracy matters more. I mean not an absurd amount but between shooters of average talent shooting say, el presidente, where the times are relatively close, hitting all A's is more important than on a longer course, say 15 targets, where shooters times are spread out more. Im not saying to not aim for A's on longer courses but it seems you can push it and the speed can pay off more on those.

[GorillaTactical]

Another little gaming advice.

On short stages such as classifiers I have found accuracy matters more. I mean not an absurd amount but between shooters of average talent shooting say, el presidente, where the times are relatively close, hitting all A's is more important than on a longer course, say 15 targets, where shooters times are spread out more. Im not saying to not aim for A's on longer courses but it seems you can push it and the speed can pay off more on those.

The math has to do with HF of stages....in stages with low HF, points are worth more in terms of time. In other words, if I have a HF of 1.0, then each point is worth a full second of time, so points are extremely important. If you are going to drop a Charlie, you have to shoot the stage more than a full second faster to make it worth it when shooting Major or 2 seconds faster if shooting Minor. In high HF cof's, points are worth less in terms of time. For example, a cof with a HF of 10.0 means that points are only worth a total time of 0.10 seconds/point. So if you can shoot the stage more than 0.10 seconds faster when dropping a Charlie, you will improve your score assuming Major PF or 0.20 seconds for Minor PF.

So lets take El Prez as an example with 3 different shooters, ALL SHOOTING MAJOR for this example:

60 available points

Let's say shooter#1 shoots it in approx. 7.0 seconds with full points

60/7.0 = 8.57 Hit Factor

each point is worth 0.116 seconds at this shooter's HF....so if he can shoot a point down while also picking up more than 0.116s, then he is going to improve his HF.

shooter#2 shoots it with some points down but in a shorter time.

55/6.41 = 8.58 Hit Factor

time difference = -0.59

points dropped = 5

5 C's and 7 A's out of 12 shots

shooter#3 shoots it with lots of points down, but in a significantly shorter time.

48/5.5 = 8.72

This shooter didn't hit a single A, he shot only C's, but he was able to do it faster, so he has the best HF of the 3

Each of these times would most likely be achievable by the same shooter, and as you can see, the HF isn't much different between the 3, but it shows that going faster while dropping points can be done successfully while still improving your score. WITH THAT SAID, ONLY YOU CONTROL YOUR HF AND THAT MEANS THAT IN EACH CASE, THE WAY YOU ATTACK A STAGE IS DEPENDENT ON HOW HIGH YOUR HF IS. If you shoot the El Prez in 12 seconds instead of 7, then you have a much lower HF (HF of 5) and that means that if you drop a point, you need to shoot 0.20 seconds faster per point for Major or 0.40 seconds faster for Minor which is around double that of the above example.

Edited October 23, 2012 by GorillaTactical

[OskiATX]

Thanks Gorilla, that adds a bit more insight for gaming a stage (when I need my hits more vs when I need to burn rubber).

[jbj]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the advice. Hopefully I can get a hall pass this Saturday for the match. We are blessed with a ton of competitions where I live.

[wes777]

As an avid SS shooter, i have also toyed with this dilema. I have a less mathematical solution. I have both a 45 and 9 trojan, set up very similar. I reload for both guns. I am a uspsa shooter but shot the idpa classifier back to back with each. At the end, i was t 2 seconds slower with the 45(cdp vs esp). Floor of minor (9) vs 180pf (45). Same points down, or whatever idpa calls it. With the points breakdown, i am sure that the 45 is more advantageous.

New 45 load, 169pf.

Both guns back to back for best time hits only on abc steel el pres. 5.5 with 9mm. 5.6 with 45. Unless you shoot all A hits, major will walk over minor.

Using most course breakdown ops, 8 rounds should be enough.... Reload on the move.

Most of the sucessfull minor pf SS shooters will be your high end M class and GMs.

Oops i driffted. You have to shoot really fast As.

Check out SS nats scores, theres gotta be a reason the top 117 shooters are all MPF

[wes777]

i cannot edit my post above, so here goes.

since nov 3 i have shot two matches with SS Minor (9mm). Each time I placed 1st in SS and within the top 10 for the day. That is a couple of places better than where I usually come out at.

I was shooting a large amount of fast As, which was scary easy to do with that teeny 9mm.

Now, there were no M or GM SS shooters at these matches.

I am modifying my statement to say this: There are certain courses of fire where there will be a sizable advantage to shooting minor vs major due to the capacity difference. Steel heavy matches favor Minor, and some field fires can brutalize a major shooter with standing reloads.

[jbj]

Thanks again guys. I am going to try and hit a local match this weekend. My plan is to pick up the speed a little bit. Although I haven't shot since the middle of October.

"Check out SS nats scores, theres gotta be a reason the top 117 shooters are all MP" says a lot.