Help me get to the next level..............(open division)

[Matt Griffin]

I'm not sure what you're going for there. I'm just saying that if you're shooting level 3 matches and winning them then likely you don't have any particular weak points, just keep practicing. More to the point, if you're at that level then whatever problems you have are too subtle to come through on hat cam or video, which is why I recommended examining your performance vs. the match winner when you didn't win the match. Thanks for the video though, I haven't watched my first year of shooting revolver in a while! It took me forever to reload back then.

Matt

Maybe I misunderstand your comment, When you said (you are the best in the world) I assume you were being sarcastic.

I truly believe there are much more stuff I don’t know about in the sport. Just try to get some info here. Some of the stuff is good some are not. I know dry fire at home is not what i need, But I am open to suggestions, I am genuinely asking for help.

Mike

Sorry about that, I wasn't intending sarcasm. I was just pointing out that it's hard to learn from matches you're winning, do you have the opportunity to shoot 4s and 5s? You can still learn from the stages you lose at the 3s, especially the ones where you don't have any obvious flaws like a pulled shot or tanked reload. I've always picked up the most information when I thought I shot the stage well and was subsequently beaten; figuring out how provides a lot of breakthroughs for me.

[Chris iliff]

Dryfire is more than just "stand here, do twenty draws".

I really feel for you and your initial question. As we get better it is increasingly difficult to "get better". I think this is where you are at, am I wrong?

SA is correct, you should be practicing more. Print out some 1/3 size targets and set up mini stages/scenarios and run them dryfire. I hate to think that you have limited your dryfire to just "stand and shoot" type of stuff. I kinda got the impression that you are not seeing all the possibilities with dryfire. It is so much more than learning to draw and aim the gun!!!!!

I am an "A" open guy and our skills look fairly equal. I am with you on the plateaue of development. It is getting harder to get better.

If I was you I would practice 3 times a week with set stages dryfire. Then I would do them live fire at the range when I could go. Very simple dryfire stages of 8-10 shots with miniature targets at home, then full size live fire of the same during range time. I would take lots of notes and work at getting my HF the same between them.

What the heck is an Asian doing in Canada?

[mikelam40]

If you're not improving, then you're not pushing yourself enough.

If you don't believe dry fire will help then you're absolutely right.

If I were you, I would be dry firing short drills on the move to get better at always moving during a stage. Or, go to the range more and do the same thing there.

But that probably won't help, right?

Sorry for any snarkiness but I don't play well with negativity.

Steve

I will try that....for the next couple of weeks.....and let you know the outcome.

Mike

[mikelam40]

Dryfire is more than just "stand here, do twenty draws".

I really feel for you and your initial question. As we get better it is increasingly difficult to "get better". I think this is where you are at, am I wrong?

SA is correct, you should be practicing more. Print out some 1/3 size targets and set up mini stages/scenarios and run them dryfire. I hate to think that you have limited your dryfire to just "stand and shoot" type of stuff. I kinda got the impression that you are not seeing all the possibilities with dryfire. It is so much more than learning to draw and aim the gun!!!!!

I am an "A" open guy and our skills look fairly equal. I am with you on the plateaue of development. It is getting harder to get better.

If I was you I would practice 3 times a week with set stages dryfire. Then I would do them live fire at the range when I could go. Very simple dryfire stages of 8-10 shots with miniature targets at home, then full size live fire of the same during range time. I would take lots of notes and work at getting my HF the same between them.

What the heck is an Asian doing in Canada?

Chris

Yes, you are right. I am at that plateau of development stages, Do you notice there are always couple good steady Shooters who has been shooting for years n years always shot 85% of your score, I know they are not getting any better but In the same time I also not getting any better either………Do have this experience? Is drive me nutz. Is like, the result is always the same. I would love to push them down 10% more. But it doesn’t seem like is happening.

Actually I used to do a lot of these dry fires stuff, (not just stand and shoot) when I said lots I really mean Lots. My wife used to think I am crazy………running around the house like a nuts. But when times goes by, I don’t do as much because I don’t feel like is doing any help in my game, but in the same time I know something is missing…….. But I will try start doing that again and see what happen since everyone are saying I should dry fires. And I need to shoot more US Match but crossing the border is plain in the ass…….

Mike

[mikelam40]

I'm not sure what you're going for there. I'm just saying that if you're shooting level 3 matches and winning them then likely you don't have any particular weak points, just keep practicing. More to the point, if you're at that level then whatever problems you have are too subtle to come through on hat cam or video, which is why I recommended examining your performance vs. the match winner when you didn't win the match. Thanks for the video though, I haven't watched my first year of shooting revolver in a while! It took me forever to reload back then.

Matt

Maybe I misunderstand your comment, When you said (you are the best in the world) I assume you were being sarcastic.

I truly believe there are much more stuff I don’t know about in the sport. Just try to get some info here. Some of the stuff is good some are not. I know dry fire at home is not what i need, But I am open to suggestions, I am genuinely asking for help.

Mike

Sorry about that, I wasn't intending sarcasm. I was just pointing out that it's hard to learn from matches you're winning, do you have the opportunity to shoot 4s and 5s? You can still learn from the stages you lose at the 3s, especially the ones where you don't have any obvious flaws like a pulled shot or tanked reload. I've always picked up the most information when I thought I shot the stage well and was subsequently beaten; figuring out how provides a lot of breakthroughs for me.

Matt

What is 4S and 5S????

I think you got some good points here; I don’t really pay too much attention on the stages I lost, because usually I knew I did something stupid. Or usually they are small stages; I learn it from a hard way to shoot small stage by points not speed, too much point to lose and too little points to gain, so I usually don’t win on small stages but I keep myself at the 90’s%. But I think I would pay more attention on the stage I lost from now on…..

I think in there are just not enough good open shooters around in Vancouver B.C. there are only 2 shooters can beat me when I am having a good shoot. One of them is injury & and the other is semi retired. I will try to shoot down in the state more often…….

Mike

[Chris iliff]

Yes I find that there are a couple guys that hang on about 85-90% of my score, match after match. Lately I find newer, younger shooters are catching up to me quickly.

We all know "youth" is the secret ingredient, hahaha, dang kids!!

Seriously, when I practice a lot I find things might go in reverse for awhile. Shoot worse matches. But I shoot a match every weekend usually, so it doesn't last long. It might take a month for my practices to pay off.

I'm glad you are gonna dryfire. My point was that it can get real boring, I understand that, so just really switch it up to make it fun again. Sometimes having the wife think your nuts can be a good thing, lol!!

Good luck to you!!

Edited to say: I know you've heard this, but I'll repeat it. A good one on one with a well respected national GM would be great for you. If you could swing a trip to Florida, Manny would be excellent. Someone that would diagnose your whole shooting approach and guide you into the 2-3 things that could get you an extra 10% or so throughout a match.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Chris iliff

[mikelam40]

Yes I find that there are a couple guys that hang on about 85-90% of my score, match after match. Lately I find newer, younger shooters are catching up to me quickly.

We all know "youth" is the secret ingredient, hahaha, dang kids!!

Seriously, when I practice a lot I find things might go in reverse for awhile. Shoot worse matches. But I shoot a match every weekend usually, so it doesn't last long. It might take a month for my practices to pay off.

I'm glad you are gonna dryfire. My point was that it can get real boring, I understand that, so just really switch it up to make it fun again. Sometimes having the wife think your nuts can be a good thing, lol!!

Good luck to you!!

Hahaha I agreed.....

[mikelam40]

Yes I find that there are a couple guys that hang on about 85-90% of my score, match after match. Lately I find newer, younger shooters are catching up to me quickly.

We all know "youth" is the secret ingredient, hahaha, dang kids!!

Seriously, when I practice a lot I find things might go in reverse for awhile. Shoot worse matches. But I shoot a match every weekend usually, so it doesn't last long. It might take a month for my practices to pay off.

I'm glad you are gonna dryfire. My point was that it can get real boring, I understand that, so just really switch it up to make it fun again. Sometimes having the wife think your nuts can be a good thing, lol!!

Good luck to you!!

Edited to say: I know you've heard this, but I'll repeat it. A good one on one with a well respected national GM would be great for you. If you could swing a trip to Florida, Manny would be excellent. Someone that would diagnose your whole shooting approach and guide you into the 2-3 things that could get you an extra 10% or so throughout a match.

Yes I miss out on Manny just 2 months ago........he was in B.C Kelowna 4 hours away from Vancouver. i couldn't make it becuase of work.....I won't miss out the next one. they don't come along often.......

Mike

[Matt Griffin]

You said you were winning the Level 3s, that's what I was suggesting, that you save up to attend a national or bigger tournament (I don't really understand IPSC match rankings)so that you could, frankly, get handed a beating by some guys and watch what and how they were doing. Just out of curiosity, how are your stage points? It's pretty easy to get complacent with no competition and wind up shooting too slowly. You might need to push to failure, then dial back a bit.

[mikelam40]

You said you were winning the Level 3s, that's what I was suggesting, that you save up to attend a national or bigger tournament (I don't really understand IPSC match rankings)so that you could, frankly, get handed a beating by some guys and watch what and how they were doing. Just out of curiosity, how are your stage points? It's pretty easy to get complacent with no competition and wind up shooting too slowly. You might need to push to failure, then dial back a bit.

Matt

Depend on what kind of stages. I usually shoot for point mostly, so I don’t drop too many points in a stage, especially on smaller stages. but I do try to go faster on bigger stage, I would rather take a A,C moving faster than aim for 2A but slower on a big stage. I know I kind of reach the point if I go any faster, I will be guessing my shot……..! One of the member here gave me a very good point, don’t look at the stage in position, shoot the target as soon as I can see it, try shoot in the move more. I will try that approach as well………we have to change too many mags in Canada that is the problems….

Mike

[D__]

You can look at your scores across the match and see how many points you dropped overall. Looks like you dropped 148 (including penalties) out of 1580 possible so you earned 90.6% of the possible points. Not bad but not great either.

Looking at the Area 1 match Eddie Garcia shot:

Power factor: Major

Total possible points: 1650

Total points shot: 1590

Total penalty points: 10

Pct Points shot (ignoring penalties): 96.36

Pct points shot (counting penalties): 95.76

Any higher than this is probably going too slow. Any lower than 91-92 is too loose to be competitive against the big dogs.

Read Bassham "With winning in mind" and give it a real shot with things like directive affirmation. Don't believe in you need a better shooter around to get better other wise it's going to end up being true.

Your plans don't look bad but could have used some refinement on some of the larger stages too smooth out the jerky movement. At the three minute mark you were left in far in right in far - too much gun movement. I would have gone in left to right and then gone long. At the 4:00 minute mark you choose to run the gun dry - move the white door out of your way - open the port - reload all in a step worth of travel then shoot four rounds out of that mag across two ports when you could have shot one of the targets you engaged from the middle door where you went dry again easy. Choppy. Not programming properly at the 5:10 mark cost you. Not being agressive on the static targets first before the movers cost you at the 5:20.

Look closely at what Steve Anderson has contributed to this thread - it's all really good stuff. If it doesn't make sense - start asking him questions.

[mikelam40]

You can look at your scores across the match and see how many points you dropped overall. Looks like you dropped 148 (including penalties) out of 1580 possible so you earned 90.6% of the possible points. Not bad but not great either.

Looking at the Area 1 match Eddie Garcia shot:

Power factor: Major

Total possible points: 1650

Total points shot: 1590

Total penalty points: 10

Pct Points shot (ignoring penalties): 96.36

Pct points shot (counting penalties): 95.76

Any higher than this is probably going too slow. Any lower than 91-92 is too loose to be competitive against the big dogs.

Read Bassham "With winning in mind" and give it a real shot with things like directive affirmation. Don't believe in you need a better shooter around to get better other wise it's going to end up being true.

Your plans don't look bad but could have used some refinement on some of the larger stages too smooth out the jerky movement. At the three minute mark you were left in far in right in far - too much gun movement. I would have gone in left to right and then gone long. At the 4:00 minute mark you choose to run the gun dry - move the white door out of your way - open the port - reload all in a step worth of travel then shoot four rounds out of that mag across two ports when you could have shot one of the targets you engaged from the middle door where you went dry again easy. Choppy. Not programming properly at the 5:10 mark cost you. Not being agressive on the static targets first before the movers cost you at the 5:20.

Look closely at what Steve Anderson has contributed to this thread - it's all really good stuff. If it doesn't make sense - start asking him questions.

Good stuff you point out in here……”With winning in Mind” is it something on line or I have to buy it as a Book? Or it already posted somewhere? I don’t really have a mind game……or what is a right mind going in to a stage or match, I have no clue what I should be thinking. I think that is something I should be looking in to…….

Mike

[D__]

Book - buy it. I thought SA was working on an IPSC?Action pistol version?

[Steve Anderson]

I was thinking about that for awhile, but it would just be recycling Lanny stuff and that doesn't seem right.

So I'll say it again: If you are a competition shooter, you will read "with winning in mind" and feel like it was written for YOU.

Thanks to Travis Tomasie for turning me on to it so many years ago...

A lot of developing shooters don't even know they need a mental game, and the results can be disastrous.

If a guy practices his ass off and continues to shoot poorly at matches, all he can do is practice more, right? That's a lonely road.

The problem is in the self-image.

You don't shoot how you want to shoot, you shoot how you expect to shoot.

And you can't lie to yourself about it.

You've got a built in bullshit detector that can't be fooled.

Just get the damn book already...

[45nut]

Well, its been about 12 years for me since my last match and going to learn all over again. 2 more stages at GM scores I would have been there. back to iorn sights for a while before I go open again. but, watching your videos I do see things listed by other shooters and a few things not listed.

1 when that buzzer goes off, don't stand there and draw your weapon and then move. draw while moving, get out of the box!

2 do not put your weapon through a shooting port. you put it in and then pull it out before you move.

3 get all the bugs worked out during your walk through and when time comes to shoot the stage, let it all flow and trust yourself. you know where every thing is and were you will be to enguage the targets.

4 when you feel like you just shot that stage in slow motion, you will most likely have the fastest time.

just my .02 worth.

Edited September 27, 2012 by 45nut

[a matt]

Welcome back. 12 years WOWl