392heminut Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I've been shooting my DPMS carbine for years with IMR4895 loads and never had a problem. When my son bought an AR-15 it had issues with the loads I was using. I worked up a load using 25 grs. of H335 under a 55 gr. FMJBT which works great in my son's rifle, but now I'm having issues with my carbine with the load. Every now and then the rifle cycles, but leaves the empty case in the chamber and upon removing the case I find that the rim has been pulled offby the extractor. I still had some of the old loads with the 4895 powder and they shot just fine. I polished the chamber with a .410 ga. bore mop and some metal polish and a drill, which seemed to help a little. Instead of malfunctioning during the first mag full it went almost 2 mag fulls before doing the same thing. I seem to remember the first M_16's having a similar problem back in the 60's and the military found it was powder related. Anyone else experienced this problem with H335? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaulter Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Did you case gage the rounds? Have you shot factory ammo through it? How do the fired cases look? Any signs of pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Did you case gage the rounds? Have you shot factory ammo through it? How do the fired cases look? Any signs of pressure? Factory rounds shoot fine, as do the 4895 loads. I don't own a .223 case gauge, but the brass was full length resized the same as I've been doing for years. The only thing that has changed is the powder. The primers don't show any pressure signs, and the cases come out very easily. Just a slight tap with the heel of my hand on a cleaning rod will push them out. I also inspected the extractor and found nothing wrong with it or the spring. The cases look normal. Edited August 21, 2012 by 392heminut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Did you case gage the rounds? Have you shot factory ammo through it? How do the fired cases look? Any signs of pressure? Factory rounds shoot fine, as do the 4895 loads. I don't own a .223 case gauge, but the brass was full length resized the same as I've been doing for years. The only thing that has changed is the powder. The primers don't show any pressure signs, and the cases come out very easily. Just a slight tap with the heel of my hand on a cleaning rod will push them out. I also inspected the extractor and found nothing wrong with it or the spring. The cases look normal. This is way, way above my "pay grade," but I wonder if this could be a timing issue??? How does the burn rate of H335 compare to the rate of the 4895? Edited August 22, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbpt1911 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 25 gr of H335 seems a bit much. From hodgdon: 55gr starting load with H335 is 21.3 gr and MAX load is 22.7 gr. Try dialing it back. Maybe the DPMS doesn't have a chromed lined chamber and your on AR does? That could make a difference, I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I've been shooting my DPMS carbine for years with IMR4895 loads and never had a problem. When my son bought an AR-15 it had issues with the loads I was using. I worked up a load using 25 grs. of H335 under a 55 gr. FMJBT which works great in my son's rifle, but now I'm having issues with my carbine with the load. Every now and then the rifle cycles, but leaves the empty case in the chamber and upon removing the case I find that the rim has been pulled offby the extractor. I still had some of the old loads with the 4895 powder and they shot just fine. I polished the chamber with a .410 ga. bore mop and some metal polish and a drill, which seemed to help a little. Instead of malfunctioning during the first mag full it went almost 2 mag fulls before doing the same thing. I seem to remember the first M_16's having a similar problem back in the 60's and the military found it was powder related. Anyone else experienced this problem with H335? I have had to return several guns to DPMS over the years at work for undersized chambers. It may be that your chamber needs to be reamed out a bit. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) 25 gr of H335 seems a bit much. From hodgdon: 55gr starting load with H335 is 21.3 gr and MAX load is 22.7 gr. Try dialing it back. Maybe the DPMS doesn't have a chromed lined chamber and your on AR does? That could make a difference, I dont know. The extra powder is making a longer burn and the ejector has already started to extract while the burn still has the case expanded? This as Pat has said, enhanced by the small chambers DPMS occasionally puts out. Interesting theory anyway. Hope we get to hear how it turns out. Tar Edited August 22, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 25 gr of H335 seems a bit much. From hodgdon: 55gr starting load with H335 is 21.3 gr and MAX load is 22.7 gr. Try dialing it back. Maybe the DPMS doesn't have a chromed lined chamber and your on AR does? That could make a difference, I dont know. I don't know where you got your data, but the label on the powder shows a load of 25.3 grs. for a 55 gr. bullet, and my Hodgdon manual shows the same thing. I rounded it down to 25 gr. even, and the primers show no cratering and aren't flattened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 The extra powder is making a longer burn and the ejector has already started to extract while the burn still has the case expanded? Tar I was thinking along those same lines since my son's rifle, which has the rifle length gas system, functions fine with the load. I think my first course of action is going to be dropping the powder charge down some and see if that cures the problem. If I can get it sorted out I will definitely post the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) 25 gr of H335 seems a bit much. From hodgdon: 55gr starting load with H335 is 21.3 gr and MAX load is 22.7 gr. Try dialing it back. Maybe the DPMS doesn't have a chromed lined chamber and your on AR does? That could make a difference, I dont know. I don't know where you got your data, but the label on the powder shows a load of 25.3 grs. for a 55 gr. bullet, and my Hodgdon manual shows the same thing. I rounded it down to 25 gr. even, and the primers show no cratering and aren't flattened. From the Hodgon loading website: Max load is the 22.7 number. 55 GR... BAR TSX FB... Hodgdon... H335... .224"... 2.180"... 21.3... 2920... 48,900 PSI... 22.7... 3063... 53,000 PSI... http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp Edited August 22, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 25 gr of H335 seems a bit much. From hodgdon: 55gr starting load with H335 is 21.3 gr and MAX load is 22.7 gr. Try dialing it back. Maybe the DPMS doesn't have a chromed lined chamber and your on AR does? That could make a difference, I dont know. I don't know where you got your data, but the label on the powder shows a load of 25.3 grs. for a 55 gr. bullet, and my Hodgdon manual shows the same thing. I rounded it down to 25 gr. even, and the primers show no cratering and aren't flattened. From the Hodgon loading website: Max load is the 22.7 number. 55 GR. BAR TSX FB Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.180" 21.3 2920 48,900 PSI 22.7 3063 53,000 PSI http://data.hodgdon....tridge_load.asp Just depends on what 55 you're looking at. 55 GR. SPR SP - is 25,3 Odd, there's no data for the FMJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) It's always amazing when I set down with the load books to check out a new load. From the 25th edition, Hodgdon Powder Data Manual 1988 55gr start load 25.0, max load 27.0 I've been loading 25.7 with Horny 55 fmj for a couple years now, in military and commercial cases, with never any problem with insertion, extraction, and no odd shapes of primers. The Sierra rifle load manual 1985 says 25.9 max specifically for the 55 fmj. IMHO Edited August 22, 2012 by springy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) The Hodgdon loading website only shows one range of load for H335 using a 55g bullet and it sets a starting load of 21.3 and max of 22.7 If there is another for the H335 I missed it. The H335 ranks 81 on the burn rate chart, and the H4895 comes in at 87. I would think that the website would have the latest specs. Is it possible that the max load has been reduced at some point? Springy, you undoubtedly have much more loading experience than I do, but I always kept the practice of not using old load books except if no other data were available. Tar Edited August 22, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) The Hodgdon loading website only shows one range of load for H335 using a 55g bullet and it sets a starting load of 21.3 and max of 22.7 If there is another for the H335 I missed it. 55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.200" 23.0 3018 40,800 CUP 25.3 3203 49,300 CUP One of the others.. Edited August 22, 2012 by D.Hayden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 All I can do is pass along personal experience. 25.7 is 2900 out of an 18" barrel, shoots fairly soft, throws the brass about 5 feet (which is not necessarily the load, but a good indicator). A couple of times I've had issues with powder weight measurement. Recheck it with someone looking over your shoulder. What's the chrono say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The Hodgdon loading website only shows one range of load for H335 using a 55g bullet and it sets a starting load of 21.3 and max of 22.7 If there is another for the H335 I missed it. 55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.200" 23.0 3018 40,800 CUP 25.3 3203 49,300 CUP One of the others.. OK, I found it, thanks. Just needed to look down a little further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Dug out another one. I used to get the Hogdgon, IMR, Winchester Basic Reloading Manual enclosed with orders from Powder Valley. the 2009 BRM, 55gr spr sp, 335, 25.3 max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I really appreciate all the responses guys! First chance I get I'm going to knock out some loads in the 22 to 23 gr. range and see what happens. Probably be a while, as my son is getting ready to go to Marine boot camp and I'm spending a lot of time with him right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Any idea what your fps is now? For me, 24gr of 335, gave me a power factor about 155 (fps average: 2,833).. you don't want to fall below 150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I am using 25.5 grains of H335 with Montana Gold with no issues. Got the data from the label on the powder itself. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Any idea what your fps is now? For me, 24gr of 335, gave me a power factor about 155 (fps average: 2,833).. you don't want to fall below 150 I haven't chrono'ed the load, but I will when I go to shoot the reduced loads. That way I can see what both loads are doing. I'm not too worried about power factors with the AR, the only 3 gun matches I shoot are local and they don't push the power factor issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootfastRunfaster Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I really appreciate all the responses guys! First chance I get I'm going to knock out some loads in the 22 to 23 gr. range and see what happens. Probably be a while, as my son is getting ready to go to Marine boot camp and I'm spending a lot of time with him right now. Tell your son that my family says thank you for raising his hand and answering the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbpt1911 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 25 gr of H335 seems a bit much. From hodgdon: 55gr starting load with H335 is 21.3 gr and MAX load is 22.7 gr. Try dialing it back. Maybe the DPMS doesn't have a chromed lined chamber and your on AR does? That could make a difference, I dont know. I don't know where you got your data, but the label on the powder shows a load of 25.3 grs. for a 55 gr. bullet, and my Hodgdon manual shows the same thing. I rounded it down to 25 gr. even, and the primers show no cratering and aren't flattened. as posted by sleepswithdogs, and yes, it depends on which 55gr bullet you look at. If at your current load you have the malfunction, then try the lower load - if you stil have the same malfunction, you just eliminated powder load as the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Tell your son that my family says thank you for raising his hand and answering the call. Thank you, that means a lot to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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