dukeguy Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I hope someone can give me some insight because I'm stumped right now! I switched the mag release of my Witness Match 9mm from the left side of the gun to the right side. Now I can't get mags to seat properly in the well, and of course, they won't drop out when the mag release is pressed. Any thoughts or ideas? dukeguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Did you try taking the grip panels off so you can see how the mag is catching on the mag release. Do the mags still stick with the grip panels removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Did you try taking the grip panels off so you can see how the mag is catching on the mag release. Do the mags still stick with the grip panels removed? No, didn't think of that. I'll give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Did you try taking the grip panels off so you can see how the mag is catching on the mag release. Do the mags still stick with the grip panels removed? No, didn't think of that. I'll give it a try. OK, I pulled the grips but I can't really see what's going on. It seems to be related to the slide somehow. Without the slide the mags seat, but when I put the slide back into the gun they won't go all the way into the magwell. If I put the mag release back on the left side of the gun the problem goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Do the mag release cuts on the size of the magazine line up , both sides should be the same height...? Another thing to check is the mag release itself, it may be sitting up higher on the left side, or maybe there is a burr on the frame that is putting the release higher up on the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Do the mag release cuts on the size of the magazine line up , both sides should be the same height...? Another thing to check is the mag release itself, it may be sitting up higher on the left side, or maybe there is a burr on the frame that is putting the release higher up on the frame. The mag release cuts measure out the same on both sides. And I don't see or feel any burrs anywhere. As I said, it seems to be related to the slide somehow. When the slide is out of the gun, the mags seat. When I put the slide back in they won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Is this a new gun, or a "new to you" gun? If the latter, make sure that the "ledge" on the mag release is symmetrical. By "ledge", I mean the thing that the magazine's cuts catches on to when it is seated. By symmetrical, I mean that they both have the same shape and dimensions irregardless if it's left side install, or right side install. I'm asking about the symmetry because I know that I was very tempted at one time to file down the ledge because my magazines weren't seating properly after getting a new set of magazines from EAA. (This are the pre-K40 mags.) Anyway, I figured out that the issue was with the base pads on the latest batch sent to me being thicker where it comes into contact with the frame as compared to the older magazines. Next thing to check: Did you just flip the mag release over, or did you also install the Heuning roller trigger bar plunger at the same time? If you did install the roller, I have an old post where I noted that the diameter of the pin the holds the mag release in place is not the same as the factory plunger. My solution was to trim the inside of the mag release where it contacts the plunger, but somebody put in a much more expedient solution: disassemble the factory and Huening plunger. Use the lower part of the factory plunger and mate it with roller plunger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Is this a new gun, or a "new to you" gun? If the latter, make sure that the "ledge" on the mag release is symmetrical. By "ledge", I mean the thing that the magazine's cuts catches on to when it is seated. By symmetrical, I mean that they both have the same shape and dimensions irregardless if it's left side install, or right side install. I'm asking about the symmetry because I know that I was very tempted at one time to file down the ledge because my magazines weren't seating properly after getting a new set of magazines from EAA. (This are the pre-K40 mags.) Anyway, I figured out that the issue was with the base pads on the latest batch sent to me being thicker where it comes into contact with the frame as compared to the older magazines. Next thing to check: Did you just flip the mag release over, or did you also install the Heuning roller trigger bar plunger at the same time? If you did install the roller, I have an old post where I noted that the diameter of the pin the holds the mag release in place is not the same as the factory plunger. My solution was to trim the inside of the mag release where it contacts the plunger, but somebody put in a much more expedient solution: disassemble the factory and Huening plunger. Use the lower part of the factory plunger and mate it with roller plunger. No, it's not a new gun. I've had it a little over a year. And I'm using the stock plunger. As far as the symmetry of the mag release, I'll check that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Check out the below link to see if you have the old or new style mag release. If you have the Old style mag release then its probably the root cause of your issue because the mag latch is biased more to one side than the other. http://www.henningshootsguns.com/tech/tech.tanfoglio.magrelease.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Check out the below link to see if you have the old or new style mag release. If you have the Old style mag release then its probably the root cause of your issue because the mag latch is biased more to one side than the other. http://www.henningshootsguns.com/tech/tech.tanfoglio.magrelease.html Nope. New style mag release in my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Do they seat without the base plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Do they seat without the base plate? The base plate doesn't even come in contact with the bottom of the gun. If I take the slide off the mag will catch, but with the slide on it comes up short of catching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Take the baseplate off and look up in there with a flashlight to see what is going on. With it working with the slide off and with you stating the base plate isn't touching anything makes it sound like the catch is causing the mouth of the magazine to be mis-aligned with the slide. That seems unlikely, but maybe that is the case. Also are the mags the new MecGar (matte with 2 ribs on the sides) or Tanfoglio (glossy with 1 fat indent on the sides) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Take the baseplate off and look up in there with a flashlight to see what is going on. With it working with the slide off and with you stating the base plate isn't touching anything makes it sound like the catch is causing the mouth of the magazine to be mis-aligned with the slide. That seems unlikely, but maybe that is the case. Also are the mags the new MecGar (matte with 2 ribs on the sides) or Tanfoglio (glossy with 1 fat indent on the sides) ? Took the base plate off and the mag seats properly. So does that mean it's the base plate? And the mags are the MecGar 2 rib mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 So is the baseplate hitting the frame then? A couple people reported that they needed to sand the top of the base plate a tiny bit to get the mags to fit into their Match guns. My 10mm mags fit fine into my Match, but there isn't any extra room.. So try sanding the top of the baseplate down a touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) So is the baseplate hitting the frame then? A couple people reported that they needed to sand the top of the base plate a tiny bit to get the mags to fit into their Match guns. My 10mm mags fit fine into my Match, but there isn't any extra room.. So try sanding the top of the baseplate down a touch. I tried the baseplate sanding, and I've got it sanded down to where it does not touch but the problem persists. I'm really thinking it has something to with the top of the mag and the slide. Again, when the slide is off the mag seats just fine. Put the slide on and it won't go all the way in. Plus, if I lock the slide back and put the mag in, it goes in. But then if I release the slide it hangs up on the follower of the mag. Edited August 1, 2012 by dukeguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 So does this outline the problem: Mag doesn't seat with mag catch on "left hand" side, with follower in and slide closed Mag does seat with mag catch on "right hand" side or with slide back or with mag follower taken out How hard is it to push the follower down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Strange the flipping the mag release would make that difference whether it fits against the slide or not. The mag release doesn't put that much pressure against the magazine. Besides once the mag release gets into the notch that holds the magazine in place it should still raise the magazine to the same height whether in the left or right side (assuming that the mag release is symmetrical). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 So does this outline the problem: Mag doesn't seat with mag catch on "left hand" side, with follower in and slide closed Mag does seat with mag catch on "right hand" side or with slide back or with mag follower taken out How hard is it to push the follower down? Your outline is correct. Tension on the mag spring/follower seems normal. And just to add one more thing, I have tried this with 4 mags. They all do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) I tried the baseplate sanding, and I've got it sanded down to where it does not touch but the problem persists. I'm really thinking it has something to with the top of the mag and the slide. Again, when the slide is off the mag seats just fine. Put the slide on and it won't go all the way in. Plus, if I lock the slide back and put the mag in, it goes in. But then if I release the slide it hangs up on the follower of the mag. Hanging up on the follower happens because the sharp edge under the slide bites into the follower's soft plastic. More common issue with the red followers of the old magazines. My newer K9 mags for my Stock II also have a few nicks. Just to make sure I'm not losing my mind: What happens when you do this: With the mag release installed on the right side, squeeze the mag release and hold it down. Insert the magazine full, and then release the mag release. Does that lock the magazine in place? I'm just wondering how flipping the mag release would deflect the magazine enough that it would be colliding with the underside of the slide and keep the magazine from seating properly. At this point, I think it would help if you sent pictures. Edited August 1, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 Just to make sure I'm not losing my mind: What happens when you do this: With the mag release installed on the right side, squeeze the mag release and hold it down. Insert the magazine full, and then release the mag release. Does that lock the magazine in place? No. I'll try to get some pics up in the next hour or so. I'm completely stumped at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 OK, I hate to admit how technically inept I am, but how in the world do you post pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Click reply. And then click "Use Full Editor". Then you can upload files using "Choose File". Then attach using "Attach this File". Another option is to upload your file to Picasa, Flickr, etc. And the click on the icon that looks like a Polaroid photo, and paste in the link to your photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeguy Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 Click reply. And then click "Use Full Editor". Then you can upload files using "Choose File". Then attach using "Attach this File". Another option is to upload your file to Picasa, Flickr, etc. And the click on the icon that looks like a Polaroid photo, and paste in the link to your photos. http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj509/davebnhc/IMG_0345-2.jpg http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj509/davebnhc/IMG_0346-2.jpg http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj509/davebnhc/IMG_0347-2.jpg http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj509/davebnhc/IMG_0348-2.jpg http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj509/davebnhc/IMG_0349-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Well the only thing I can think of is the actual mag release cut in the frame being at an angle which would make the mag catch engagement point higher or lower from one side to another. Take the mag release out and use some calipers to measure from the top of the mag release cut to the top of the frame. Repeat this on both sides of the frame to see if one side is higher/lower than the other. The only other thing I can think of is the mag catch "Notch" cut in the sides of the mag are not at the same height on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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