Hornady LnL AP

[Seeker]

To repeat what other posters have said; Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar. Audi vs BMW Suzuki vs Honda etc.

I've loaded more than 25k .45's and 5k 9mm on a LnL. The initial adjustments were a learning curve but now nary a problem that cannot be resolved with a blast of compressed air.

One problem that is prevalent is that a small grain of powder or media will raise havoc with the primer punch causing it to freeze in the up position. The symptom is that the press will not rotate and the immediate response to apply greater force on the handle is not the best idea. slightly unscrewing the punch will allow the press to rise, and then the punch can be removed for cleaning. Keeping the press clean can make this a non issue.

Priming can give you arm a good workout. Proper press height is important in this area as well. Military crimped 9mm brass will cause you to say words that will begin to strip paint from the walls. Fortunately I've never tried to force one and cause a detonation. simply remove the casing from the press for off line de crimping or disposition.

One giant thumbs up for the LnL is that I can change from .45 to 9mm in about 10 minutes using the same powder measure. If I was to change the powder measure, it would take less than 5mins. Caliber changing is also quite a bit cheaper. all you change is the die. and (supplied) primer shuttle and tube.

I have nor had the best of luck with Hornady dies. I use the EWG undersize 9mm die with a Redding Competition seating die and crimp die. And the Redding Competition dies set for .45.

Bottom line is that whatever you choose will most likely meet your needs.

[roadapple]

So the general consensus is whatever press you buy will have its quirks and weaknesses. Sounds as if you take the time and not get discouraged, the LnL ap is a good buy and great press. I honestly don't care about color. Im interested in a press that wont break the bank and can pass down to my kids when they grow up.

I had a Hornady LNL AP for a little over a year. At first, I had priming issues: Primers would not seat flush. It took many calls to Hornady Customer Service, many replacement parts, and many different "Try this...". When I finally got the primers to seat flush (they would never seat below flush like they are supposed to), I then discovered that the shell plate would not stay in time. I had to adjust the timing pawls frequently. This was taking up the time I needed to spend loading ammo. On top of that, the case-feeder would not feed 9mm cases without jamming, or showering brass all over the floor. The powder measure would back-out, throwing inconsistent charges. Another call to Hornady Customer Service, and they sent some shims that stopped the back in-out. The shims made it difficult to adjust the powder measure PTX depth, because they would lock the bushing to the die where the bushing would come out if I turned the powder die; making it necessary to use a pair of channel-lock pliers to loosen the bushing from the powder die to make any adjustments. So, I was stuck with a press that needed constant attention, and adjustments, to load just a few hundred rounds, and I still would get high primers on occasion. The ideas incorporated in the LNL AP are brilliant, but the execution of these ideas was completely flawed. The tolerances in this machine were way too loose. This will not do in a machine that has to adhere to tight, fine tolerances to make ammunition. I really wanted to make this machine work. I purchased several shell plates, all four case-feeder plates, several Case Activated Powder Dies, several powder meter inserts (standard pistol, standard rifle, micrometer pistol, and micrometer rifle), nearly all sizes of PTX expanders, spare springs, timing pawls, primer system parts, and the large akro bin for the completed rounds that Hornady should have included with the press in the first place. I was invested in this press, and I was determined to make it work. Hornady Customer Service was very good, with just one rep. that treated me like I did not have a problem (that I just thought I did), denying that the problems I had were known to Hornady. During this long, frustrating process; I still needed to load ammunition, so I bought a Dillon RL550b to load on until I got all the bugs worked out of the LNL. There were just too many parts that were out of tolerance, including main press parts that did not fit right. The quality control was not there, and I did not want to spend a lot of money sending it back to Hornady repeatedly until they just replaced the whole thing with another press that might very well have the same problems, so I sold the Hornady, and all it's accessories. I am still loading on the RL550b. I thought that I had to have auto indexing and a case-feeder, but using the 550 taught me that I did not need these things at all. While the Hornady powder measure is a good one, I found that the Dillon powder measure was just as good. Both would throw within 1/10th of a grain with the same powders. The bottom line is: It does not make any difference what color your press happens to be. What matters is the completed ammo quality, and the time and effort it took to achieve the quality you wanted. Many people say their LNL AP's run perfectly, and they have none of these problems. I believe them. Many others say they had the same, or similar problems I had, and could not remedy them either. I believe them too. If having auto indexing is a must-have, and it would be a deal breaker if the press did not have it, I ask you to do yourself a favor: Find someone who has a 550, who will let you try their press. Then find someone who has a 650, RCBS 2000 Pro, or LNL AP and try that equipment as well. I know several people, who thought they had to have auto indexing on their progressive press, that changed their minds after loading some rounds on my RL550b. Don't let auto indexing be a deal-killer. Make your decision on which press will deliver the quality ammunition you need, in the quantity and time you desire. If you decide on buying the LNL, I sincerely hope you get a good one. I hope you get a good press no matter the brand, or color. I hope this helps.

Edited August 4, 2012 by roadapple

[andrewst359]

Roadapple- thanks for the honest response. I really appreciate it. Like you, I was gonna finally out with the LnL ap. I have a local dillon dealer that I can call and see his press. The Hornady on the other hand is more difficult around my area. Maybe not going full blown true progressive is what I need. Down the road I could always buy the 650 to supplement if our round count goes up. Thanks for the reply!

[Shadowrider]

Roadapple- thanks for the honest response. I really appreciate it. Like you, I was gonna finally out with the LnL ap. I have a local dillon dealer that I can call and see his press. The Hornady on the other hand is more difficult around my area. Maybe not going full blown true progressive is what I need. Down the road I could always buy the 650 to supplement if our round count goes up. Thanks for the reply!

Just to reiterate, my experience is pretty much EXACTLY the same as roadapple's, he just explained it better.

I thought I was getting 650 features for 550 money and I too really wanted it to work out. For me that wasn't the case and as more and more time goes by and I read of everyone's varying amounts of success with their LNLs, I have to question their QC even more than I did before. I read a bunch of different forums and I don't see the same variance of success with Dillon. Just another angle to consider.

As you may have figured by now, some people actually prefer a manual index press over an auto-index. It's really a personal preference unless you are loading really large quantities of ammo, then auto-index is a real time saver, so don't get set on one of them unless you are really sure. I have several shooting buddies that load a lot more ammo per month than I do on their 550s and they love them. The 550 is still a progressive only without the auto index.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Shadowrider

[98sr20ve]

Same here. Hornady gave me a new frame. Eventually they gave me my money back. My ammo needs to work 100%. The LnL just could not do that. Never mind all the other annoyances.

[JGH4445]

Had the same experiences as Roadapple, but I went FULL circle. I had the LNL for about two years and actually got it up and running fine. I had the usual growing pains with it, but with a few calls to a great bunch of CS folks at Hornady ( the answering machine messages are worth the call) it finally came around and I was producing ammo with consistent long runs. A burp every now and then but usually related to keeping the primer area cleaned.I just kept reading and hearing about the blue machine being so much better. Didn't really know how it could get much better but then I thought, "Maybe I'm missing something". So, I went to see the Elephant. Finally broke down and sold the red, like Roadapple again, with all the bells and whistles. Lost a little money but I wanted that Dillon. Put some money with what I got for it and got a 550B RL from Brian ( Great Guy! Maybe if I'd gone ahead and bought the 650 it would have worked out differently) with all the tool heads caliber conversions, powder dies, funnels, uniquetec micrometer dial, etc. Got it assembled and began to load. Primer feed just wouldn't stay consistent. Flipped primers and upside down primers at every loading sessions. Countless calls to a great bunch of CS folks each time I had a loading session. I don't believe I ever had a run of over 60 rounds that something didn't stop working or jammed or whatever. Kept it for about two years. Got tired of all the stoppages all the time. 9 yes, a few were operator error, but not many) Kept missing my auto index and the long runs I had on my LNL. Sold the Dillon and re-bought the LNL. Got it set up last night. Now, I'm waiting until the package of shell plates and case feeder plates, bushings ,etc. gets here. Should be tomorrow. I noticed on the new LNL that it now has bosses for the case feeder tube, zerks for the press and a really neat EZ eject system. Still has that stupid little case bin..(C'mon Hornady this is a progressive unit..we need more case space!) One of Dillon's selling points is great CS. Boy..they do really have it BUT, so does Hornady. Never charged me for a part, always there to help. I'm happy now looking at the Red on my Bench. ( I also have green and orange on the bench too.) I hope this machine works for me. Its possible that its a lemon but that would be the case if I'd bought a new Dillon too. I echo all the others when they say that you should get your hands on as many as you can. See what fits you best. They are all good now-a-days.. Yep, Chevy vs. Ford, Versus Harley vs. Honda!

Edited August 5, 2012 by JGH4445

[andrewst359]

Now im really confused!! I have a dillon dealer close but its tough to find a LnL ap locally.

[andrewst359]

Can you use Lee dies in the 550 to save some money or are the dillon dies worth the extra cash?

[andrewst359]

JGH4445- can you keep me posted about your LnL ap when you get it? Its about $400 less than the dillon 55550B.

[mjs408]

I have had great luck with my LNL. I had primarily loaded 40 and 45 in it but recently started 9mm,38/357, and as of last Sat. 223. I had a small timing issue with 9mm, but 1/8 turn of the screw and it worked great again. I don't have a case or bullet feeder. But a Case feeder is on the Horizon. Andrews, check Jax Outdoor, wont have one in stock, but can get one. That's where I got mine. Only annoying things is ball powder in the primer slide, and a little compressed air fixes that. I have thought about putting a heavy chamfer on the under side of the slide to give the powder room to get out of the way.

[JGH4445]

Sure will Andrew. Sent a PM.

[ben b.]

I loaded on 550 & 650 before I chose what to buy, and I chose the LNL AP. I find the LnL AP superior to the 550 for pistol, and equivalent to the 650. There are some things I like better about 650 and some I like better about LnL. I have not had any unresolved issues with the LnL and I have seen issues with all of them. I have about 70,000 loaded on LnL at this time.

[jbrown13]

I also have had similar problems as roadapple, and probably some additional problems as well. The folks that you call at Hornady for service don't seem to know a lot about their equipment either. For instance my latest problem is a broken toggle casting caused by the pawl adjustment screw breaking while running the press. I called for warranty parts and after seeing the e-mail confirmation of the parts being shipped I noticed that the grease fittings were not included on the order. These grease fittings are the drive type (not screw-in type) and can't be re-used. I called back and told them that I thought the grease fittings needed to be added, and the guy I talked to treated me like a fool and assured me they would be installed on the toggle as they always are. Today I receive the parts and no grease fittings to be found anywhere. Now I wait another week until they send me the fittings. The press, and especially the case feeder, has been a headache since day one. Personally, I'm not at all satisfied with the product nor the service.

[JGH4445]

Boy..don't want to jinx my LNL, but so far thru the set up, the case feeder is working flawlessly with .45ACP. Got a grease gun to the zerks on the press. The one that lubes the ram took grease readily, the two that grease the linkage to the ram are not taking grease at all. Gotta figure that out. Timing is perfect, now on to the primer function and adjusting dies. Hope it all goes as smoothly as it has up to now. I've been very careful to follow the directions both in the instruction book and the video. So far, so good.

[andrewst359]

Keep me posted if you would.

[JGH4445]

Well, here's my experience with 100 45 ACPs in about 12 minutes. That takes into account stopping at the 50 mark and taking the bullets out of the small bin and putting them into a cartridge box. When I began, I had to adjust the primer rod so it would pick up a primer. Got that done and the primer appeared in the cup at the next pull of the handle. Had to make one adjustment to the case feeder mechanism to stop it from dropping two cases at a time. No problem there. Re-adjusted and re-tightened my sizing/de-priming die, with the case up in the die, so it would stop hitting the lip of the die. Put everything in place and started loading. Like the first sentence says, 100 rounds in 12 minutes and that was being deliberate and watching everything going on. I couldn't be more pleased. Having said that, I don't think its fair to compare the LNL with a case feeder to the 550 without one . A better comparison would be with the 650. I've never operated one of them. I do know I'm really happy that I sold my 550 and got the LNL. The LNL is really smooth and I don't have to manually index. Now I have to go out to the range and shoot some of my other calibers so I will have some brass and can set up all my dies with the LNL bushings and have them ready to go. Good luck with your decision.

[andrewst359]

Thanks. I've already made up my mind. I have my wishlist ready at Grafs for the LnL ap. Is the Redding rifle crimpndie worth the money or use one from lee?

[JGH4445]

Don't have a clue about the Redding. Here's another think I liked about the LNL. Just finished cleaning up after the session. On my 550, I had to taake the linkage apart to dump the powder out of the measure. With the LNL, just turn the whole thing a quarter of a turn, lift out, remove the cap and dump the powder. Easy. I did as the instructions said and cleaned the measure with One Hot Cleaner, Degreaser and dry lube...I dunno about this stuff. It seemed to attract powder like a magnet. Powder sure did stick to it. I'm gonna go find some powdered graphite and run thru the measure.

[andrewst359]

Sounds good. I appreciate keeping posted about the new press. It relieves the mind after hearing all the horror stories. I like my classic single stage so the ap should fit right in. Try a used dryer sheet in the powder measure.

[PC Geek Shooter]

Never loaded on a Dillon so don't know about them. They certainly have a loyal following and that's usually not without reason. That said, I have two LNL's with many thousands of rounds on them with no major issues. One of them had an occasional issue with brass hitting the mouth of my 9mm Redding resize die. Switched to a set of Hornady new dimension dies two years ago and zero problems since. Either company will take good care of you, so customer service/warranty issues are probably a wash.

I was wondering what you mean by occasional?

As I had to return my first LNL AP 6 days ago, I couldn't get past the first station with a RCBS carbide die. I could go 3 rounds in a row with the case catching on the back side of the die and stopping the press. That first one was very, very bad, left to right pawl's were fine though. I tried numerous die bushings (bought separate 2 pack also) and tried at least 2 of the included shell plate springs. Sometimes I’d have to manually move the shell plate as it wouldn’t click into the right place, once every 25 times or so. After 3-4 days searching on the internet and reading and watching more videos I finally called Hornady and they said to return it to Cabela's. I did and got a new one which was much better. I got to 36 without hitting the back side of the die, the left and right pawl's were perfect from the factory this time. Then I started to not get past 15 to 25 before it would happen, and it could then happen once and then two later the same thing. The shell plate moved perfectly this time, never had to manually put it in place.

Took my LNL press to a store yesterday called Gun Stop in Minnetonka, MN where they have like 2-10 times as many reloading items as Cabela's has and they really know their stuff. They also sell the Hornady LNL AP and the accessories and he said that he wouldn't sell me another die set because they'll do the same thing since the press is out of spec in that first station. He said to return that one.

In the first press, I tried the other stations with the other dies and they seemed to line up just fine. Although I didn't put primer tubes or the powder feeder stuff in, just wanted to see if the cases hit the side of the walls and stopped the press like #1 station did.

I was still wondering if you think I should just go up to Cabela's and try getting another die set, since this second one was soooo much better than the first. I know that that gun store on Sat. is super knowledgeable and all, just the probability of me getting two in a row that are lemons for the exact same thing after all the rave reviews has me perplexed. But honestly I'm a little pissed at Hornady, however CS has been great. I know they were OOS at MidwayUSA, Cabela's and other places that I checked for over 6 mo's and wondering now if to catch up if they made someone else make them in China or something and quality control went way, way down.

This LNL AP isn’t really that complicated, one of the main reasons I went with it over the others, I thought better bang for your buck. I started really researching in December 2011 off and on until late June when I bought everything. Only could set it up and start working on it like 10 days ago though.

Now I’m looking at the Dillon XL 650, which I researched a little bit off and on for months before I got the LNL. The Dillon seems to have a lot more parts and much more cumbersome to change out dies. I did get to use the 650 at that Gun Stop store and it felt way different from the LNL, no case grabbing at all. However, I really like the idea of the die bushing system on the Hornady LNL AP since if I have to pull a bunch of bullets when I screwed up it’d be easy to take out one of the dies and very quickly use the Hornady Cam-Lock Bullet Puller. Let alone switching to another caliber, which I won’t be doing right away but next year hopefully I will.

With the LNL AP shell plate and the die bushings it just seems like a better system. Especially after watching many Youtube vids on the Dillon 650 for changing calibers and numerous other things. But then again if you get two duds in a row then something is seriously flawed. Hell if I had the money I’d just go buy the Dillon 650 and let Hornady take back the LNL AP and give me a working one in 2-3 weeks. Then I’d compare both of them side by side and post my results after using them over a few months, but money wise, not going to happen.

I'd like to know the people that have bought new LNL AP's, or relatively new, if you could state in what month you got them. I thought they were all made in the USA, but now I don't think so. If I had two in a row as factory defects, then there must be a lot people that have them also for the ones made in the last 3 months or so. Maybe they caught that their tooling was off and only spit out 25 to 50 that were really really bad, but if they did more than that then you'd think they'd have more people talking about it.

Some LnL owners have said that priming on the press is 2-3x harder than on the Dillon. Is this true?

This really interests me, somehow I missed reading about this while I was researching the Dillon compared to the LNL. I know someone said that Hornady as much admitted to it. Would like some other comments from others that have first hand knowledge of using the LNL AP and the 650, or the 550. I have constant neck, shoulder and hand problems so even doing the LNL with the one station gets to me. I know it's going to hurt having all 5 stations doing something, but it's really the only way I'll continue to shoot since I plan on making the most wussy 9mm rounds I can (sub minor). Eventually want to get a .223 and others but those will be in limited quantities, but again making the wussy rounds will allow me to shoot them and not take so many days to recover like I do now just for shooting 9mm, or even too many 22lr rounds (from holding handgun up).

[mjs408]

It bums me out to here Hornady QC is slipping. I would hope that they are not stooping to the level of cheap Asian labor. I have been told that Hornady outsources a lot of their machining, which I believe when it comes to certain things you see. Like the shell plates all having a different style of numbering even if you buy them close together. The outsourced machining could have a bunch to do with the QC, but you would hope that Hornady would have secondary QA in house.

[JGH4445]

As I said in an earlier post, I sold a 550 to buy the LNL. I find the priming to be a LOT smoother with the LNL. Most of my problems with the 550 related to primer feed and adjustment. So far, (maybe 2000 rounds) zero problems with the LNL. Just a note..even though you use carbide dies, go ahead and lube the cases...it makes pulling the handle so much smoother.

[jester121]

I'm pleased as punch with my LNL (purchased new earlier this year at Cabelas), as silly as it sounds my main reason for choosing it over the Dillon was how wide open and accessible everything is. The Dillon turret just seemed really cramped and at least for my bench setup, not ergonomic. 5 stations compared with 4, and everything just seemed easier to reach.

I load 38/357, and 45 ACP for a 625 revolver that is finicky about Federal only primers seated just so, and the primer seating is one area I've never had a problem with on the Hornady. I do use Lee dies, after encountering some crimping issues with the Hornady 38/357 die the Lee factory crimp die has been great, so I use Lee for 45 ACP too. About the only complaint I have is there's a bit of effort running new Starline brass through the expander die, but some lube spray solves that.

Not to discount anyone's experiences (certainly with any manufacturer of anything there are lemons) but I dare say there's a fair amount of group-think in certain circles, where we get the old "if it ain't blue, it's shiite" dogma. I've been happy with Hornady myself, and everyone should take anecdotal responses for what they're worth.

[Ed Robinson]

I liked my first LnL so much, I bought a second! I grew up loading on a Rock Chucker and eventually added a second RockChucker.

My wife bought me the progressive piggyback for the RCBS about 15 years ago and it loaded aLOT of rounds in that time, although it really did take constant tweaking and homemade fixes to keep it running. Anybody who ever spent much time on the piggyback or Ammomaster from the early 90's can tell you a LnL or 550 with a hiccup is hands down easier to deal with>

I sold the piggyback to some poor unsuspecting friend of mine and bought a LnL. Fell in love with it and bought another after about a year. Added case feeders and aside from the few hiccups and adjustments from time to time, they have been awesome machines. BTW- after the 1st LnL, I added a 550 to the mix. It stayed on my bench approximately 2 hours after setup. Back in the box and away it goes. I was not satisfied with it at all. To be fair, I have never pulled the handle on a 650 but the 550 doea not hold a candle to the LnL in my opinion.

[DerrickJ]

My LNL has been a great press for 9mm and 45.

I am getting it setup to do 40 when I move to Limited, and have full confidence that it will do fine. The key is the take your time in setting up the press. The lube is thick and ALL needs to come off, with special attention being paid to the powder drop assembly. I read the storied about the PTX being a pain for folks, but have not had one issue. Once set, it expands the case mouths just right, and allows the seating and taper crimp die to maintain good neck tension.

The few little issues I had were addressed by Hornady CS and parts were sent out. My main issue was the bushings coming loose, and they sent me some shims to tighten things up. As for the poster that stated Hornady outsources, I think you are mistaken. They make the majority of their stuff in house according to their reps, and all press items are US made.

I'd like to get a a second press one day, and it will most likely by another LNL. Hornady is a solid company to do business with.