Why aren't juniors broken out in results?

[drysideshooter]

Recently all the SC matches my son and I have shot have not broken out the juniors in any way in the results. In the past they at least showed up on the results with a way to identify the juniors, ladies, law enforcement, etc, sort of like the USPSA results. All of the matches we've shot recently, including some that we've traveled to don't show who the junior shooters are at all. I am assuming it must be the scoring program that most clubs are using?

Personally I think it's important to have the juniors identified so that juniors can compare how they are doing to other juniors. Unless you happen to know all of the other junior shooters and their names, it's pretty impossible to tell who is a junior by looking at the results.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

[MarkCO]

I don't think it matters at all. The point I made to my kids is to look at times and improve each time. Placement in SC at a local match is kind of irrelevant to me, especially with the fixed courses. The goal should be to try and lower your time and you can pick out good benchmarks and goals. Those could of course be beatng Mom, then beating dad.

[drysideshooter]

I just think that it makes it more fun for kids, especially extremely competitive kids. We've traveled to some events and seen other juniors but not shot in the same squad that they did. My son, though he always strives to improve at all times and tracks his times using an Excel database of his times, still likes to see how he is doing on a given day against other juniors. From what other kids and their parents have said I don't think it's that uncommon.

My son is really analytical, but there is still the competitive sense. He has been in a full time program for the extremely gifted since he has been in 2nd grade. He's 12 and in the 6th grade right now. Recent testing shows him at a graduate college student level in most of his studies. He's one of the few kids as bright as he is that isn't a stereotypical nerd. He has been the quarterback of a championship football team for four seasons and is really, really competitive. I am thrilled that he enjoys guns and shooting, and part of the competitive type shooting for him is knowing how he is stacking up against those of a similar age.

Though I agree that it's largely a competition with yourself to improve, there are classes for a reason, and those get broken down into other categories like junior, ladies, etc. I don't think anyone would be offended by having things broken out that way, and there are probably some that would enjoy seeing it. If it was all about just improving there wouldn't be an differentiation between revolver and auto, optic or not, etc.

Edited May 28, 2012 by drysideshooter

[warpspeed]

Ask when you sign up. It is probably like Senior, if you don't tell them you won't put in that group.

[MarkCO]

While I see your point, the equipment divisions, to me let you see where you are with similar equipment. Age and gender, to me, honestly don't matter in SC since it is physical nuetral sans a few quick steps in one course of fire.

My kid finished above middle of the pack his first SC at 9 and only wanted to compare himself to the top, after he made sure he beat Mom...also a very competitive kid. He knew he could beat the other juniors, so he really did not care about where they finished. I use their sports, school and shooting as much as a teaching tool as a hobby. In real life, there are no category awards and only when you do your best can you hope to knock of THE best. I am sure KC did not start out in SC looking at where he placed amongst the Juniors, he was shooting to win the whole thing, and did.

Just a different opinion, or approach if you will.

[Carmoney]

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Yeah, I think there are not enough juniors at most matches to have much of a competition.

Furthermore, there is such a huge difference between a 12-yr-old who is just starting and an experienced 17-yr-old with lots of big match experience, that there is no way to draw any sort of apt comparison.

Our local Tuesday night match has been drawing around 40-45 shooters lately. One of our top overall competitors happens to be 16 years old.

I'm not a big fan of keeping track of any of the "categories." We're all shooters, let's just shoot.

[drysideshooter]

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Yeah, I think there are not enough juniors at most matches to have much of a competition.

Furthermore, there is such a huge difference between a 12-yr-old who is just starting and an experienced 17-yr-old with lots of big match experience, that there is no way to draw any sort of apt comparison.

Our local Tuesday night match has been drawing around 40-45 shooters lately. One of our top overall competitors happens to be 16 years old.

I'm not a big fan of keeping track of any of the "categories." We're all shooters, let's just shoot.

I agree about the lack of juniors, and I think that anything that can be done to get more kids shooting is a good thing. In rimfire rifle optic my son smokes most of the adults and he gets a huge kick out of that. I also agree that there is a lot of difference between a 17 year old with several years of experience and a younger kid just starting out. In that respect I think that the way the USPSA classifies may make it easier to compare how you are doing against those with similar skills, all of course while trying to improve. Maybe they should consider something similar for SC?

The relative lack of junior shooters should be a concern for all of us.

I believe that having more things like "top junior" and such may go a long way to encouraging young people to shoot or to continue shooting. I would gladly pay a few more bucks in entry fees to help pay for plaques, ribbons, anything to give the young shooters for performing well.

Edited May 29, 2012 by drysideshooter

[gng4life]

Dryside,

The EZ Steel program that all sanctioned clubs use do have that feature, it's called Tags. You have to tell the club to enter the tag so they know and multiple tags can be entered, such as if you are a junior and female. I just had my match last weekend and take a look at the Additional column to the right, it will show the tags...

http://steelchallenge.com/match-results/?action=match&indx=642

As you can see, one of our Juniors placed 4th in the Main Match, he's impressive and getting better every day.

If the clubs you are going to don't upload to SCSA, they are probably not official clubs and therefore use whatever they want for scoring. If they are uploading to SCSA, then ask them to add the tags on. On my sign-up sheets, I have a column that shooters circle their tags so I can enter them into the computer.

Also, if you have a local SSC club around, they have Juniors compete against each other in a sort of "postal" match format. They have two age groups; 12-15 and 16-19 so they can compete on a more even basis. Check into those and see if your son can join in.

Let me know if you have any further questions...

[drysideshooter]

Dryside,

The EZ Steel program that all sanctioned clubs use do have that feature, it's called Tags. You have to tell the club to enter the tag so they know and multiple tags can be entered, such as if you are a junior and female. I just had my match last weekend and take a look at the Additional column to the right, it will show the tags...

http://steelchallenge.com/match-results/?action=match&indx=642

As you can see, one of our Juniors placed 4th in the Main Match, he's impressive and getting better every day.

If the clubs you are going to don't upload to SCSA, they are probably not official clubs and therefore use whatever they want for scoring. If they are uploading to SCSA, then ask them to add the tags on. On my sign-up sheets, I have a column that shooters circle their tags so I can enter them into the computer.

Also, if you have a local SSC club around, they have Juniors compete against each other in a sort of "postal" match format. They have two age groups; 12-15 and 16-19 so they can compete on a more even basis. Check into those and see if your son can join in.

Let me know if you have any further questions...

Thank you very sincerely for the information. The clubs where we shoot are SCSA member clubs and upload to SCSA. The club where we mainly shoot used to include the tags with the results, and they still have us circle tags on the sign up sheets, they just don't show them anymore.

Unfortunately we don't have a SSC club anywhere close to where we live (Eastern WA).

I am going to ask the clubs where we shoot if they would please add the tags.

[gng4life]

No problem...I am surprise if they were there before, they should still be there. When we all converted over to the new software, there was a DB export and import process. If they followed that, it should have still showed up. Either way, it's a very simple, quick fix in the user data area.

If they have any problems, they can contact me or you could PM me for my phone number and personal email address.

Good luck, I know how frustrating that can be and for Juniors, it makes a difference. I make sure to try to recognize our Juniors every month at our Safety Brief just before we start the festivities...

[drysideshooter]

No problem...I am surprise if they were there before, they should still be there. When we all converted over to the new software, there was a DB export and import process. If they followed that, it should have still showed up. Either way, it's a very simple, quick fix in the user data area.

If they have any problems, they can contact me or you could PM me for my phone number and personal email address.

Good luck, I know how frustrating that can be and for Juniors, it makes a difference. I make sure to try to recognize our Juniors every month at our Safety Brief just before we start the festivities...

Thanks again. If the person that submits the scores has any problems I'll get in touch with you for your contact info.

I agree that for Juniors some recognition can make some difference. Folks can argue all they want, but if it can potentially keep Juniors interested it can make a positive difference in our sport.

[TeamGreenbaum]

Special recognition for Juniors (and Pre-Teens!) is a great way to bring in new shooters and increase interest for families, and that's a great thing for shooting sports.

My own kids would like to first win their age group and then beat the adults.

[drysideshooter]

Special recognition for Juniors (and Pre-Teens!) is a great way to bring in new shooters and increase interest for families, and that's a great thing for shooting sports.

My own kids would like to first win their age group and then beat the adults.

That is my thinking too. My son is only 12, and started shooting USPSA and SC when he was 10. Aiming to beat other better/more experienced youngsters at first is a good intermediate goal, and possibly more achievable than trying to be the overall match winner right away.

[de03x7]

I suspect that there is a new person inputting the scores and just doesn’t know to check the blocks. They would probably be happy to do it if it gets pointed out. My wife and daughter (21 and sponsored by Mom and Dad) shoot and they always like to see where they place among the other women in the match but are more concerned with beating me than anyone else. My daughter gives me a hard time if she beats me on a stage or even if she has one string faster than mine. What she doesn’t know is that it will be my happiest day when she beats me in the match.

[drysideshooter]

I suspect that there is a new person inputting the scores and just doesn’t know to check the blocks. They would probably be happy to do it if it gets pointed out. My wife and daughter (21 and sponsored by Mom and Dad) shoot and they always like to see where they place among the other women in the match but are more concerned with beating me than anyone else. My daughter gives me a hard time if she beats me on a stage or even if she has one string faster than mine. What she doesn’t know is that it will be my happiest day when she beats me in the match.

Way cool! I see you are from North Pole. I graduated from North Pole High School in 1981 and spent 33 years in that area. Still miss a lot about it. Where are they having the matches up there?

[de03x7]

I suspect that there is a new person inputting the scores and just doesn’t know to check the blocks. They would probably be happy to do it if it gets pointed out. My wife and daughter (21 and sponsored by Mom and Dad) shoot and they always like to see where they place among the other women in the match but are more concerned with beating me than anyone else. My daughter gives me a hard time if she beats me on a stage or even if she has one string faster than mine. What she doesn’t know is that it will be my happiest day when she beats me in the match.

Way cool! I see you are from North Pole. I graduated from North Pole High School in 1981 and spent 33 years in that area. Still miss a lot about it. Where are they having the matches up there?

Small world? We shoot steel in Chatanika. We have one monthly match with 4 stages and this will be the fourth year that we have a state championship match in June, The Chatanika Ironman which will be 10 stages and a man on man shootoff in one day this year. We are expecting sixty shooters this year including Mike Seeklander who will be doing a class at the range the next couple days after the match. You can find more info about the match at alaskagunner.com Make plans to visit the old stomping grounds next year and come shoot the match

[drysideshooter]

I suspect that there is a new person inputting the scores and just doesn’t know to check the blocks. They would probably be happy to do it if it gets pointed out. My wife and daughter (21 and sponsored by Mom and Dad) shoot and they always like to see where they place among the other women in the match but are more concerned with beating me than anyone else. My daughter gives me a hard time if she beats me on a stage or even if she has one string faster than mine. What she doesn’t know is that it will be my happiest day when she beats me in the match.

Way cool! I see you are from North Pole. I graduated from North Pole High School in 1981 and spent 33 years in that area. Still miss a lot about it. Where are they having the matches up there?

Small world? We shoot steel in Chatanika. We have one monthly match with 4 stages and this will be the fourth year that we have a state championship match in June, The Chatanika Ironman which will be 10 stages and a man on man shootoff in one day this year. We are expecting sixty shooters this year including Mike Seeklander who will be doing a class at the range the next couple days after the match. You can find more info about the match at alaskagunner.com Make plans to visit the old stomping grounds next year and come shoot the match

Man I love the Chatanika Gold Camp. Such cold beer. I may have to plan our next trip up there to coincide with the match.

[Retread1911]

Special recognition for Juniors (and Pre-Teens!) is a great way to bring in new shooters and increase interest for families, and that's a great thing for shooting sports.

My own kids would like to first win their age group and then beat the adults.

Mine too and let me tell you it will not take long unless I get a whole lot better quickly.

My 9 YO shoots production while the 13YO shoots open. I can still beat them both but as soon as the 13 YO actually starts practicing I am toast. Of course practicing together would be a great thing.