XL650 .223 using a small base die?

[Boxerglocker]

I'm currently running a RT1200 sizer trimmer on my XL650 for .223

I have several thousand rounds through it now with my DDM4 and relatively no problems. All adjustments are set with a Dillon case gauge.

I just got a new AR rifle that has a a tight chamber and looks like running a Redding small base sizing die may solve my issues, though I'm leaning toward having the rifle manufacturer either replace of ream the barrel out.

My question is with my current set-up, full length Dillon sizing and decapper at station 1 and the RT sizer/trimmer at station 4...

should I run a a Redding Small Base Body Die (223 Remington) http://www.midwayusa.com/product/376763/redding-small-base-body-die-223-remington at station 2 or 3? OR should I just replace the Dillon FL die at station 1 with a Redding Small Base Full Length Sizer Die http://www.midwayusa.com/product/466853/redding-small-base-full-length-sizer-die-223-remington?

I would think the first option would be the least stressful on the brass, size down at station 1, set the shoulder back completely at 2 and set the base to the final size. Then just match the sizer/trim die to not bump back the shoulder anymore, just trim?

Thanks for your insights

[dillon]

FIrst, does a sized, empty case drop down to flush with the bottom step on a headspace case gage? The Dillon sie die will allow you to push the shoulder down far enough to do that. Next, after that, does the bolt completely close on a sized, empty case then freely extract?

[latech15]

My guess would be that the shoulder isn't being resized correctly.

Does the rifle feed factory rounds correctly? If so, get one of those do-hickeys that clamps on to your calipers and measures from the base to the shoulder. Make sure that your sizing die is pushing the shoulder back to the same measurement as the factory round that feeds fine.

I had the exact same problem as you when I started and I was using a small base die. I think they are a good idea, but probably not your issue.

[Boxerglocker]

FIrst, does a sized, empty case drop down to flush with the bottom step on a headspace case gage? The Dillon sie die will allow you to push the shoulder down far enough to do that. Next, after that, does the bolt completely close on a sized, empty case then freely extract?

To be honest, I'm still debating this one with the AR manufacturer and they are already offering to change the barrel.

I just want to figure it out. All the factory XM193 fed and ejected manual with no resistance.

I use mixed brass and all my rounds spec out in a case gauge. I get one out of 3-4 that are harder to extract manually and one that fully closes but is stuck hard and will have to pogo the charging handle to get it to eject. I blued one round with a blue sharpie pen. Cycled it through manually and it was stuck hard against the shoulder. However , in my other AR a DDM4 that same round chambers and extracts manually like soft butter.

I'll state at this time that my DDM4 has over 7000K of my loads through it and never had this issue.

I'm beginning to think I have 2 issues with this rifle and my loads.... a slightly tighter barrel AND some slightly inconsitent loads.

I'm just asking that if this particular rifle has just a tighter barrel what are my options for setting up a small base die in the set-up.

[RiggerJJ]

As Gary said, the Dillon full length sizer followed by the trimmer should work fine. My guess is you just don't have the 1st sizing die screwed down far enough. Tighten till it hits the shellplate, and tighten 1/4-1/2 turn more. That will give you a deeper shoulder. If that dosn't work, try a (Redding I think?) body die right after the 1st sizer. It will sharpen up the shoulder/neck corner which is sometimes a problem area. I had to use a body die for a Sabre barrel with the same problem you described...

JJ

Edited May 17, 2012 by RiggerJJ

[Boxerglocker]

As Gary said, the Dillon full length sizer followed by the trimmer should work fine. My guess is you just don't have the 1st sizing die screwed down far enough. Tighten till it hits the shellplate, and tighten 1/4-1/2 turn more. That will give you a deeper shoulder. If that dosn't work, try a (Redding I think?) body die right after the 1st sizer. It will sharpen up the shoulder/neck corner which is sometimes a problem area. I had to use a body die for a Sabre barrel with the same problem you described...

JJ

This was exactly my thought if indeed the problem being my loads. Like I said previously the issue is just with this gun my DDM4 I have had ZERO issues. In fact the rounds that stick in one cycle no problem in the DDM4.

My issue is how to know I'm making a better round? My rounds already fit the perimeters of the Dillon case gauge for shoulder set back. I guess that I'll try and set it at minimum and go from there. Otherwise I already have a Redding SB die on the way from Midway.

[RiggerJJ]

I set my shoulder to mins in the Dillon case guage and my ammo works in all the AR15s I am loading for witg the Dillon Full Length Carbide die. Also would not use a Redding SB die for the fix if taking the Dillon die down to mins doesn't work, I would use the body die which won't overwork the neck. Another point is I think if you look at specs, the Dillon Full length is basically a SB die. The Dillon FL does have to be set pretty deep to get a good shoulder set.

JJ

Eta; a small base die will not solve the problem because the problem is the shoulder to base dimention.

Edited May 17, 2012 by RiggerJJ

[Boxerglocker]

Thanks for all the insights guys... up to this point I hadn't had time to tinker. However got the time tonight and did adjust my dies about a 1/4 turn down to slightly cam over on the shell plate. I re-sized 100 cases that I had previously sized before and will load them up to test later this week. I'll post a follow up afterwards.

[MickB]

Also remember your Daniel Defense barrel has a 5.56mm NATO chamber. Your other barrel may well be a .223 chamber that is tighter.

Using an EGW chamber guage is both .223 and 5.56, I noted that factory M193 rounds would drop in fine in the 5.56 guage, but not the .223 guage.

Mick

[latech15]

Dillon case gauges have always been on the loose side for me.

As I said before, and others have repeated, get the tool to measure from the shoulder to the base. That will tell you if you are resizing the shoulder correctly.