Match Video - Let's hear everyone's feedback

[Shawneeboy87]

Hey everyone -

I've been working a lot with a couple Master class shooters around the area. I've watched my videos over and over and have taken notes on what I'd like to work on and what I see. However, I want to hear what everyone else is seeing and compare them to my notes .

Appreciate the feedback!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fsl8RXIWWk&feature=g-all-c&context=G2bd2697FAAAAAAAAEAA

[Dillon b]

you can keep your hands up a little more on your reloads, and keep your head up. Its hard to tell in the video though due to your back being to the camera.

[CHA-LEE]

Here is what I see….

First stage – Look at your movement in each shooting position. You are turning each shooting position into multiple different shooting positions. When there is a port with a bunch of targets to engage at extreme left to right angles its better to get closer and crowd the port so you can instantly transition between targets without needing to shift your whole shooting platform around.

In the first shooting position you are “Looking for holes” in the targets to confirm hits before leaving the position. Looking for holes wastes a ton of time. Call your shots so you KNOW that your hits are there as soon as the gun fires.

Your gun malfunctioned during the stage run costing you a bunch of time. What was the cause of the malfunction? Did your hand bump the mag release?

Your stage plan wasted a bunch of time. You go to the middle, come out and go to the right, then go back to the middle. In this kind of stage its probably better to shoot the left, all the middle then finish on the right. Even if you have to do a standing reload in the middle. You wasted at least 3 – 4 seconds going to the middle portion twice.

Second Stage – You are wasting a bunch of time by trying to get as close as possible to each array of targets. All of the hard cover targets are going to be hard shots not matter if you are 3 – 4 yards closer or not. Trying to shoot them on the move only slows your shooting down even more and you gain the risk of pulling your shots into the black. For these kind of targets its better to pick a solid stance shooting position and mow down the targets from a solid foundation. You gained nothing by trying to shoot them on the move or cram yourself into the end of the shooting positions.

Missing the steel in the third shooting position cost you a bunch of time. Keep in mind that every time you miss a piece of steel it costs you at least half a second to make it up. If you take your time and hit the steel one for one, even if it feels slow you are ahead of the game.

You grabbed for your mag during the reload but didn’t feel it so you had to pause and look for it. This shows that your mag pouches on your belt are not setup properly. If your mags are set at the correct angle and separation any time you reach down for a mag you should be able to grab one.

Third Stage - You take a few steps THEN draw the gun. The gun should be up and out of the holster before you start your second step. Keeping the gun in the holster only limits your ability to move aggressively. The sooner the gun is out the sooner you can get it up and ready to use as well.

In the middle portion of this stage you created an artificial log jam by engaging the targets in a right to left shooting order. If you would have taken one more full stride and started engaging the targets from left to right it would have allowed you to smoothly engage all of the targets on the move without even stopping.

Forth Stage – This kind of hoser stage is all about eliminating and minimizing shooting positions and hauling ass when not shooting. For example you could have shot the right target then moved hard to the left and engaged the two left paper from a moving position as you advanced forward in the stage. As you did it you created an unneeded extra shooting position right after the first target.

Fifth Stage – Could you see all of the targets from the back shooting area? If you could have it would probably be faster to simply dig in and shoot the down range targets from the back shooting position. Either way this kind of stage is all about minimizing huge target to target transitions. Every time you swing the gun from the left to the right it takes you about 1 second. Picking a target engagement order that eliminates some left to right transitions would have saved you multiple seconds on this stage.

Sixth Stage – In the middle of this stage you are trying to shuffle around shooting the targets on the move. Shooting targets on the move should only be done when you can cover a significant amount of ground while shooting. If you are only gaining a few feet of shuffle step movement while engaging targets its totally not worth it in both time and loss of accuracy. Any time you pick up a foot or put a foot down it disturbs the gun and in turn results in poor or no hits. Its better to dig in and shoot the middle targets from a solid stance. Doing this will allow you to shoot faster and more accurately.

[co-exprs]

+1 on what Charlie said. +1 on the reload too. Keep the pistol up in line of sight. I really like that you have a sense of urgency when you shoot. You already have a great balance between a desire for efficiency and shooting skills. You're going to learn this sport really fast becuase you have the right mind set. I also like that you have a natural smoothness to your movement while also having great acceleration. A natural talent which is often difficult to learn. Just to add. You shoot with your shoulders rolled pretty far forward. Square up your shoulders and hold your head more errect. You'll have better mobility in your entire upper body. Shooting posture is something we all stuggle with from time to time.

[Shawneeboy87]

I appreciate all the feedback!

CHA-LEE: I'm going to sit down later tonight and watch the video and have your notes printed out and take a deeper look (would do it now but the internet at work is SLOW). It sounds like a lot of the feedback you provide is around my breakdown of stages and my stage plan. I still believe that needs A LOT of work. Since I've started shooting last year, i've found myself asking a lot of the higher class shooters their plans and comparing to mine.

Just to address a couple of points you made:

Malfunction - The malfunction was a case that did not eject. When the next round went to chamber it locked the slide back. It took me a split second to realized what happened. I dropped the mag racked the slide but had to rack it a second time to eject the brass. It cost me a good 8 seconds. I took a look at the scores and it cost me 1 spot in the division. I think I need to develop a plan for malfunction. Rather than try to figure it out -- take action. As soon as i realize a malfunction: 1.) drop the mag 2.) rack the slide and clear the issue 3.)reinsert mag 4.) rack slide. I never plan on malfunctions, but guess you need to.

Steel - That really killed me. That would've put me a lot closer to first in the division had I hit those steel. I got a little cocky after going 4 of 4 on the first set of steel. I tried to be a little more conscious of the sights on steel, but just got lazy on that array. You commented on a video I posted last year on BE and thats when I really tried to focus in on the steel.

I'll give you some more thoughts or further questions tonight when I have access to the video.

co-exprs/Dillon: I appreciate the feedback. A guy I shoot with has been hounding me since I started shooting last year to make higher reloads and I've been stubborn (not on purpose) to doing it.

co-exprs: I'm still trying to find my natural stance. I've struggled with some ugly stances late last year and early this year, but I still think I need to find that natural position. I've been trying to work on that during dry-fire.

[co-exprs]

Yeah, unfortunately the "natural stance" is a myth. You need to use the grip, frame and stance which will provide you the best results. Look at the thumbs forward grip on a 1911. If you do it right, you will have your left wrist torqued up higher than is comfortable... at first. You get used to it. The way I teach frame, is to get in your proper stance, stand up straight with your shoulders square, like you're ready for action and looking at your target. Grip your pistol with your elbows the way you like (I break them outwards slightly, others prefer straight and locked) and pointed down at 45deg angle. While looking at your target, bring the pistol up into your line of sight, without rolling or bunching your shoulders. Shift your sights to your line of sight, not your line of sight to your pistol. This is a good starting point and you can adjust your frame from there, to suit your personal needs. I don't like the often taught "boxer" stance, as it roles the back and shoulders too much, while pulling the head down. That stance is fine for self defense, but in run and gun, it limits your ability to move your head and bunches up your upper body and core muscles, reducing the ability to twist and move freely.

Charlie and I have slightly different shooting styles. Charlie is explosive and shoots with brute force and attack. I tend to be more subtle and value fluidity (I'm getting old I guess). You appear to be some where in the middle, having good spring and attack while maintaining smooth and controlled motion. My advice will tend to lean more towards efficient movement to shave time off the clock feeling that each step I can take in a stage will get me to the end sooner. I'll shoot any target I can on the move because it takes time to stop moving and then start moving again. It's really a big bag of tools. Each target presents a different challenge and requires a different set of tools. I'll stop and shoot targets when the needs of the target dictate, but I'd much rather keep things moving.

I used to struggle with steel also. Most everyone does at some point. I was hessitant to waste my time and money shooting steel challenge because I was stupid. I got kind of hornswaggled into helping run a new steel challenge match at my local club and once I started shooting that event, all of my USPSA shooting got noticably better. Not just shooting steel. Steel challenge forces you to push your fundamentals. You will see a drastic improvement in any shooting requireing you to transition quickly and execute a precision shot at speed. I found that steel challenge is awesome practice for USPSA.

Edited March 28, 2012 by co-exprs

[Shawneeboy87]

It's funny that you say that -- I was actually looking last night to see when there will be some local steel matches. I was going to pose that SAME question to some of my buddies "will shooting a steel match help more than just going to the range and practicing on paper." It's good to know that I'm on the right track in my thinking atleast lol

[AS350Driver]

There's a static steel match at OB this Sunday, here's a link for you. My link

oops it's the third Sunday, sorry. I might try this next month.

Edited March 28, 2012 by AS350Driver

[CHA-LEE]

co-exprs brings up a good point about different shooters having different shooting styles. All of us have our own "Style" of shooting that is based around our inherent skills and the skills we excel at. When we first start shooting we try to emulate the shooting style of other successful shooters. This is fine but you need to evaluate your own inherent and trained skills so you know which direction your shooting style leans. Once you know which direction your shooting style leans then you can study and emulate successful shooters with the same basic shooting style.

There are two basic shooting styles. One comprises of fast shooters but slow movers, the other comprises of slow shooters but fast movers. A very good example of a successful Fast Shooter/Slow Mover is Taran Butler. A very good example of a successful Slow Shooter/Fast Mover is Dave Sevigny. Both of these guys are top end shooters who can win pretty much any match they enter. But they obviously get the job done quite differently.

In the end your shooting skills will lean towards one or the other of these styles. What you end up with will be a blend of each style and it will be unique. Knowing what shooting style you lean towards makes a HUGE difference in how stages can be broken down so they maximize your skills and style.

My "Style" of shooting is heavily biased towards the Fast Shooter/Slow Mover style. I can shoot effectively very fast from planted foot/feet shooting positions then explode my movement to the next shooting position. I will not shoot on the move unless I can do so while moving at a fast walking level of speed AND retain my fast shooting speed. My stage plans usually consist of "Go here, shoot.... Go there, shoot.... etc"

I shoot regularly with co-exprs and his style is biased in the other direction. He prefers a Slow Shooter/Fast Mover style. His style of shooting has him optimizing movement while shooting through the stage even if his on target splits are slower. He can start shooting sooner than most other shooters because he has kept moving so the targets present themselves sooner. His stage plans usually consist of "Start moving this direction while shooting these targets...... While exiting this shooting position keep engaging these targets then transition to engage these other targets while moving towards them..... Etc"

Both of us could shoot the same stage in the same time with the quality of hits but it will look totally different due to our opposite styles.

[waktasz]

I was on your squad. I'm only a B in Limited/A in L10(although I did manage to win that day) so I won't try and give you too much advice, other than that I think your holster position is too far to the center. Your hand has to move too far and turn to get to the gun and on turning draw stages your holster position is going to force you to wait longer before you can safely get the gun out. Finally, I would not want to have an AD in the holster with where yours is pointing. Just a suggestion

Here's my video if you want to check it out.

[Shawneeboy87]

I'm assuming this is Matt. I'm open to suggestions -- ill take a look at my setup when I get home. I know I spent a little time last night readjusting my mag pouches and whatnot. I'll take a look where my holster is on my belt.

Thanks for the video.

[co-exprs]

Charlie is being very gratious to say we can shoot a stage in the same time. It's been years since I beat him in a match. He explained it much better than I did. I shoot almost exclusively with fast, explosive guys, with extremely fast splits. Guys who can clear target arrays at a dizzying pace. I was really frustrated for a long time, because I simply can't pull the trigger fast enough to compete. I had to start looking at courses in a different way to remain in the hunt on the leader board. I hooked up with a local GM who shoots a very different style than most other GMs. He was smooth and fluid with an almost effortless, continuous motion. I told myself... I can't shoot fast, but I can do 'that'! I identified my style of shooting and began training to shoot that way and I broke through a very large barrier in my learning curve. Employing solid shooting fundamentals will get any shooter to a solid B rank, and many into the A ranks. Most shooting fundamentals are universal thuths, which everyone must master to progress. Once you've mastered these fundamentals, you will find it difficult to progress, until you discover your complimentary shooting style. Some people see it plain as day as an obvious path. Others take years (me), while many (probably most) never really figure it out (simply because they don't know to look). For some, the complimentary shooting style is dictated by body type and athleticism.

Why am I telling you this? Because these forums are stocked full of technical advice, like hold your gun higher when you reload, or stop milking the grip. These technical tidbits are great, but once you've mastered them you will hit another wall. To run at peak performance all the time, you have to understand what you are really, really good at and learn to develop and exploit it. I some times feel as though my advice and Charlie's can read contradictory, but that is because we are sharing from two different perspectives. It's your job to sift through all the tidbits and try different things to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. This all sounds a bit touchy feely, because it is. Two new shooters can start out at the same time, train together, compete together and maybe even make GM together, but thier paths will more than likely be very different.

I have a close friend who is a smaller, younger and extremely athletic guy. He can run a trigger very fast. Because he shoots with me a lot, I can see much of my style in his shooting. I don't think that my style suits his body frame and athleticism very well though. I can see him struggle to make good hits shooting on the move and feel he would be better served abandoning my style and shooting more like Charlie. The sooner you figure it out the better off you will be.

[Mat Price]

Listen to these guys they have really put me on the right track. I have found I am slow mover fast shooter. But i am working on being able to move more lie co is talking about. entering shooting postions shooting and leave them shooting.

[Shawneeboy87]

I see myself as more of a slow shooter fast mover -- but I still think I can move a lot faster than my videos show.

Shot another match this past Saturday, felt like I did well -- still a lot I need to work on. Alot of mental mistakes which is just lazy and frustrating (e.g. shooting the gun dry or lazy unfocused reloads). The stages at the match were pretty simple and straight foward, not a lot of stage planning which was disappointing because that is something I wanted to work on based on Cha-Lee's feedback. I did drop A LOT of points by hitting deltas and all the deltas were low. I mustve had at least 10 through 5 stages and a few (3) mikes.

I went out to the range Sunday to figure out what the hell I was doing wrong. I ran a couple of drills and realized I was still hitting low. I stopped and put single shots down range aiming for the alpha (head)zone. They were all hitting in the bravo or charlie zone. I realized that I had a case of the flinchys on the trigger pull. I focused on clean trigger pulls and BOOM i was hitting right in alpha on the head. It was my first "A HA" moment in shooting without a master class shooter telling me what I was doing wrong.

I haven't seen the scores yet, but I guarantee all the points I dropped in the match will make a HUGE difference.

Videos will be up soon.

[Mat Price]

thats the one thing man you can't make up D's with speed. I beat alot of shooters by being moderatly fast at this point and shooting 94+% of the match points. last match i had two d's and 0 mikes and i finished 2 nd open and 4th over all behind some serious GM and M class shooters.

[Shawneeboy87]

The deltas most definitely are a killer. When I first started shooting last year, I never understood why people said "a delta is like a miss." I was always like "but you didn't miss." They'll kill you in the final standings.

Up until a couple of months ago I had a case of the "itis." The "MIKE-itis" that is I was shooting without even really seeing the front sights.

I've cleaned that up MAJORLY in the past couple of matches -- now I just need to work on the accuracy. I'm trying to take one step at a time. I want to clean-up the poor mental mistakes and the accuracy next. I think that will kick up my scores and move me up in the final results. I still don't think I'm moving at full speed -- for some reason there's always that hesitation. I think it's more mental than anything else. I think its a fear that if I kick up full notch to move from one position to the next, I might forget to do something in between.

Area 8 in August is my goal to get EVERYTHING ironed out. When I say everything I mean stage breakdown, transitions, moving at 100% speed, accuracy down pat, and all gun issues ironed out. I think I've made some good progress the past couple of months but it could've been a lot better. I want to go there shooting my best. I know that it'll be tough to finish in the upper echelon given the talent and experience that goes down there, but I want to make an impact atleast. I want to atleast make a run for it. That'll set me up even better for Area 7.

[Mat Price]

I really find it a a push and pull thing. just as I feel like I am shooting really well and things are coming together I find or have someone point out how I can do something better. my hits sometimes start slip so I back the speed down till i get real comfortable with the new technique. For example I was doing really well getting good hits with ok speed and co-exprs pointed out that maybe because I am big dude I should try to to not stop and start so much but float and move through positions. Use my size to stabilize my gun as i move. And low and behold I come out the other side of it better. So I just turn myself over to the process. It will come for you as well.

do you have a training program you are following? If not i would highly recommend getting one. I use mike seeklanders handgun training program.

[Shawneeboy87]

Not up until last night I was kind of just going through my own routine and working on what I felt was necessary or lacking.

A buddy of mine lent me Saul Kirsch's and Steve Anderson's books. So I'm going to be putting together a routine based on a hybrid of those books together.

I just joined a range, so I'm going to try and get out to the range atleast once a week, even if its only to shoot a 100 rounds. The indoor range is 24/7 so if I can't to the outdoor range, atleast I can work on some accuracy indoors. I'm also shooting 2-3 matches a month. I've been dryfiring every night -- at most 40 mins. a night.

Hopefully this does the job.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shawneeboy87