How would you RO this WSB?

[22 shooter]

Heads up Alabama State Match. That's where I got the stage from.

[gng4life]

Heads up Alabama State Match. That's where I got the stage from.

Oh crap, we discussed this before, exact same stage. Need to go back and see what happened to the suggestions or what was missed.

Scratch that, not exactly the same but very, very similar. Instead of barrels on the original one, there are walls with a few minor changes. The other one we discussed allowed the extra ammo on the belt with the first mag coming from the barrel while this one is stating that all ammo is coming from the barrels. The original one was much better as far as wording in the WSB.

Edited March 7, 2012 by gng4life

[sperman]

Heads up Alabama State Match. That's where I got the stage from.

I was hoping I had changed the wording enough that it wasn't obvious, but since Mike outed the stage:

http://www.eastalabamagunclub.com/uploads/Stage_5_-_Barrelland__1_.pdf

I'm sure Hopalong will have things sorted before the first shot is fired.

[Skydiver]

Yes, that "No ammo on the shooter at any time during the stage" could get problematic, specially if the shooter takes a sight picture with a loaded gun, or unloads and tucks the magazine in a pocket or pouch. If you have any foreign shooters, most of them will come up to the firing line with mags on their belt, so they'll be in instant penalty at "Make Ready".

[Thomas H]

If retrieved from a barrel and stored in a mag pouch until used for a reload, they still 'came from the barrel'. Right?

This didn't work at the 2010 Nats, with a similar WSB---and with just having it in the hand, as opposed to actually pouching it.

Did it survive arbitration at 2010 Nationals? Or was there no attempt to arb the procedurals applied?

There was a beginning at an attempt to arb, however, several things occurred that meant the arb didn't get turned in on time. (The guy I attempted to turn it in to looked at it, suggested a couple of changes, which I did right there in front of him, and then when I attempted to turn it into him, looked at his watch and said "well, now it is past the one-hour time, so it'll get thrown out." Needless to say, I was not pleased. However, that was now two years ago, so while I'm obviously still irked about it, I'm not going to discuss it anymore.) My point is that if you attempt to game WSBs in such a way, get ready to have procedurals you are going to have to argue.

Moving away from that---with regard to the WSB posted here: even if you can get it to say what you want, you are going to have issues. Is there a pressing reason that people can't take mags from barrels and pouch them? If not, I'd suggest you just have all mags start there, no more, and eliminate the issue.

If you absolutely NEED to have everything from the barrel, you are going to need to say things like: "All ammunition must start on barrels, may not be carried in any way by a competitor whether in a pouch or a hand, and all reloads must go directly from the barrel to the gun" or something similar.

You'll note that level of specificity sounds ridiculous, which is a pretty good indicator that perhaps you are attempting to force something that really shouldn't be forced.

[EkuJustice]

Didn't it say that all reloads "must" come from the barrels? If you put them in your pouch, now they came from your pouch. Did I miss your point?

If you follow that logic that time spent in the pouch now makes the reload to come from the pouch rather than the barrel, then it would follow that time spent in the shooter's hand makes the reload come from the hand, rather than the barrel. For example, a shooter grabs a mag from the barrel and takes 5-6 steps away from the barrel before the mag finally makes it into the gun, is that a reload from the barrel or from the hand? What is to differentiate that from a shooter who grabs a mag from the barrel, takes 1 or more shots with his loaded gun before replacing the mag that is currently in the gun?

Yep, another example of the devil being in the details....

You could probably write it up to force that -- ammunition to be reloaded into a fire arm must not be retrieved until there is a need to perform a reload, and must upon retrieval from the barrel be inserted immediately into the gun, before another round is fired/step is taken/more than 2 seconds pass/the RO keels over.....

But all of that specificity creates other headaches, and potentially sucks some fun out of the stage/match.....

Best to specify starting positions/conditions, and then let the competitors solve the problem....

Problem I see with wording it as "until there is a need to reload" would be defining need to reload. This is not IDPA where slide lock reloads are the norm. Is a need to reload classified as when you choose o or when the gun is dry