Haraise Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Whew. Ok. So black t is about .001-.002 thick. Lots of mixed reviews about Ionbond. I like the polished finish of it. Anyone know how thick nitrocarb is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think you are missing a 0. I think a lot of the mixed reviews come from choice of application, and a lot of people assuming IonBond is a coating and not a coating company. IonBond has many many coatings and not all of them perform as well as their DimaondBLACK product. They OEM coat for a lot of major manufacturers and not all of them choose their best coating (cost would be my guess) but other lesser performing products. Locally, there is a IonBond facility that coats the parts we make and though it is much better than a lot of options, it is NOT to the performance level of DiamondBLACK. If the metal will wear due to disparities in hardness or whatever, the coating can only protect a part for so long, that is why plating's appear to wear so long. The fact is they are thick and if you made them as thin as the ultra thin PVD coatings, the wear would show quickly. PVD coatings aren't magic though, you need to know what applications are appropriate, and if you have a soft substrate, it will improve the performance, but not prevent all wear. That is why I don't suggest putting it on aluminum, when hard anodizing is more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 We have used DLC in many applications at work. Probably not the same process as Ionbond, but they are all in the same family. DLC is an extremely hard coating. If the material underneath deforms at all, it makes it possible for the DLC to come lose and flake off. The softer the material is, the more load the part sees, the higher the risk of the DLC flaking off. From what I understand the process has improved greatly and the likeliness of problems is much less than just a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Good eyes on that. .0002" - .0003" is the correct thickness for Black-T. IonBond is just a touch thinner at about .00015 then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 We have used DLC in many applications at work. Probably not the same process as Ionbond, but they are all in the same family. DLC is an extremely hard coating. If the material underneath deforms at all, it makes it possible for the DLC to come lose and flake off. The softer the material is, the more load the part sees, the higher the risk of the DLC flaking off. From what I understand the process has improved greatly and the likeliness of problems is much less than just a few years ago. That is what we have seen. I know before we started using it, they did have some issues, but I know they have made changes in the recent past to improve performance, and I have only seen adhesion issues a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Looks like nitrocarb is .0004-.0008. That makes it by far the thickest of the three applications we're talking about here. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBandit Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Looks like nitrocarb is .0004-.0008. That makes it by far the thickest of the three applications we're talking about here. Interesting. That's depth of the treatment not "added thickness". It's a metal treatment, not a coating, nitrogen and carbon are diffusing directly into the metal. Any dimensional changes or distortion are a result of heat used in the process and its minimal. Edited February 27, 2012 by BlueOvalBandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 So nitrocarb really doesn't add any thickness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBandit Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 There may be dimensional growth changes of 0.0002" to 0.0004" which is pretty negligible. Carburizing in its simplest form is just placing steel in a carbon rich environment at an elevated temperature for X amount of time. This allows carbon to diffuse into the outer layer of steel(which in its basic form is just an alloy of carbon and iron). The increased carbon in the outer layers when quenched forms martensite(an extremely hard phase of steel) and increases hardness of the steel on the surface. How hard you can make steel is pretty much entirely based off its carbon content, other elements such as chromium, nickel, etc add corrosion resistance and make it easier to quench which forms the martensite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Which also explains why nitrocarburizing is far more durable than an applied coating, since it actual alters the molecular structure of the metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Decided to go with the Nitrocarb. Fit and finish won out in the end. Figure he can make it tighter if there's no material added at variable thicknesses to account for. Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBandit Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I forgot to mention that nitrocarb by itself isn't the black finish you see with tennifer and melonited guns. They usually parkerized or blued after the treatment to get the deep black look and I have no idea what that adds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Well that changes everything. I was talking about thicknesses and was told that it added none. Now the park or blue definitely adds some and changes every consideration about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBandit Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) The the answer is still the same, it doesn't add, but nitrocarb is a grayish color not black. Then there are different process which blacken it and that varies. My suggestion is find someone who does it and see what they say about the finished product. Even with melonite there are different variations QPQ for example is quenched polished and quenched again. Polishing will removed a minute amount of surface stock by nature and may take any changes back to zero. Edited February 29, 2012 by BlueOvalBandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfixer Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) :yawn: Edited February 29, 2012 by gunfixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well, I'm a little late to the party, but I'll jump in with my experiences with Black-T anyway. I have a Colt Officers ACP that I've carried concealed here in the desert southwest for over 15 years with the Black-T finish. When I sent the gun to be finished it had a 4# trigger pull for carry purposes. When I got it back the pull was a little over 3# and I had to tweak the sear spring to bring it back up to 4#. The only oil I've ever used on the gun was a drop on each slide rail after cleaning. The self lubricating properties of Black-T are a proven fact in my book! As for wear and corrosion resistance, I've never had any rust on the gun and yes, the edges of the gun show holster wear but as I've said, no corrosion whatsoever! If you want a pretty gun then go with a finish that has better wear properties, but if you want a finish that holds up great for a serious carry gun I don't think Black-T can be beat! I can post a couple of pics if anyone is interested in seeing how the finish has held up to 15+ years of carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 By all means, I'd be glad to see your officer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) By all means, I'd be glad to see your officer! Here you go. As I said, I've been carrying this gun for over 15 years with this finish, in both leather and kydex holsters. There is some marring in the actual finish and the black coating is worn through on the edges to the hard chrome or whatever it is they use under the black, but I've never had a corrosion problem. I also posted a pic of the frontstrap checkering to show how well the black finish has held up on the checkering. Edited March 4, 2012 by 392heminut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Wow, fifteen years of carry and it looks better than some guns with a month! Very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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