Xander Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Hi! I'd just like some expert advice on my dilemma. Well, Ive been shooting on/off for 3 years and only started out shooting IPSC style Prod last July of this year. I'm currently using a Glock G17 with .215 Warren Sevigny sights. I pretty know all the basics, stance, grip, eye dominance etc. and been trying to absorb all the info here. I'm right hande, right eye dominant btw. I spend almost all my free time dry firing, as susual achieving zero movement on the front sight with a perfect trigger pull, I usually aim on a 1" round targets 5-10 yards on walls of my apartment. I've been doing this drill since I started out shooting 3 years ago. That's where I think my problem started. When faced with an IPSC board 7yards and farther I just don't know where to aim and I'm just all lost, I can't see proper alignment of my sights, the target and my sights are all equal on my vision. I just can't seem to apply the "calling shot" technique especially when under time pressure, so I usually end up with a C's or 'D's. But on 8" steel target, I can easily hit them as far as 30 yards with one shot (15 yards with both eyes open, and one eyes closed 15 yards farther). I can also shoot good groups with double taps on transition in 3 IDPA boards placed 1 yard apart head zone on practice session. I just don't know what to do and would really need some guidance on hitting those brown paper. Any advice or info will be great, TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve L Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Get yourself some IPSC Targets and tape an Index card in each A zone. this will give you a reference point to aim at till you got in burned into your muscle memory. Also try this. http://www.predatortactical.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I'll bet you struggle on targets that are half-covered by No Shoots, too. Your problem is called/akin to "shooting brown". You've gotten so used to holding anywhere within the outline of a target that you simply can't find the A-zone when you mount the gun on something with "invisible" scoring areas. Steve's advice is definitely sound, and you can do it with your dry fire. I've had to teach myself the same thing on Classic Targets, as that coffin zone really screws with me. Start with the Index Card and progress to smaller and smaller points of reference, right down to a tiny strip of white tape. My advice is to remove the index point towards the end of your practice session and focus on the proper hold without any help for a few repetitions-- even if it means slowing yourself down. The human eye is geared towards finding the natural center of any shape-- that's how peep sights work, after all. You've just got to train yourself to let that happen, and then sharpen your ability to make it happen quickly! Fortunately, the hard part is hitting where you're aiming. Figuring out how/where to aim should be a quick and easy fix for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I just found a way to solve my issues, when shooting paper targets 7 yards farther I could make good hits with my non dominant eye closed. It takes me some time, but I don't care, I just compensate my time with my moves. But on steel targets I can easily hit them with both eyes open, weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve L Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I do the same thing but at further distance like a head shot only covered by a no shoot but at around 15+ yards. Are you sure you aren't cross eye dominant? 7 yards is a little close for a full target, are you seeing two guns when both eyes are open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I do the same thing but at further distance like a head shot only covered by a no shoot but at around 15+ yards. Are you sure you aren't cross eye dominant? 7 yards is a little close for a full target, are you seeing two guns when both eyes are open? I'm pretty sure I'm not cross eye dominant, but when I aim at a specific target especially IPSC boards with both eyes open trying to aim at the center most part, I can see my sights clearly, no double vision for me with my gun. But when I check my sight to target alignment I'm off to the left. I really have to focus and see clearly the front sight, check if it's properly center on the rear sight and pull the trigger, then it's dead on. I guess I should really work double time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve L Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I still think it might be an eye dominance issue. But maybe it is your grip, if your natural index is to the left side of the target, you may need to reassess your grip. If you hold it in the natural grove of your thumb like most people do because its comfortable you will get poor index. Holding it in the meaty portion of your hand not only acts as a vice on the rear of the gun but it should point a lot better. I have seen another guy not be able to get a good index with his open gun so on his strong hand side he added material to his grip to alter the natural point of aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I still think it might be an eye dominance issue. But maybe it is your grip, if your natural index is to the left side of the target, you may need to reassess your grip. If you hold it in the natural grove of your thumb like most people do because its comfortable you will get poor index. Holding it in the meaty portion of your hand not only acts as a vice on the rear of the gun but it should point a lot better. I have seen another guy not be able to get a good index with his open gun so on his strong hand side he added material to his grip to alter the natural point of aim. I would check my eye dominance. With regards to grip, I usually press the meat of my thumb especially the lower part on the curve of the Glock rear grip. I do the thumb forwards grip. Edited October 31, 2011 by Xander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Wait, I just reassess my strong hand grip on my G17. Instead of letting the rear of the gun contours on my thumbs/palm swell curve. I shifted the gun a little more on the meatiest part of my hand, and I don't aim off to the left, WOW!!! Thanks a lot Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve L Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 This is a good video. Is this how you are holding it? Ultimately what we need to do is make you grip the gun so your natural POA and index or in the center of that A zone. I would definitely use the index card on the target, shrinking your aiming point will focus more one the other fundamentals instead of the sight swim in the brown. Try this, grip your gun as you normally would then remove your strong hand leaving your support hand in its place. Now with the support hand only move the gun around till the sights are sitting exactly where you want them. Hold it there then close your eyes for 5 seconds. Open your eyes and they should give you instant point of aim, if the sights aren't aligned, keep doing this till you have your eyes open up with your sights on target. Once you establish this index now grip the gun with your strong hand without moving your gun, let the strong hand find where it wants to rest on the gun with the sights remaining where they belong. Usually this will feel awkward because you are not used to it, but don't give up this grip it'll start to feel more natural. If all this works for you then practice putting this grip on your gun while in the holster, don't draw it just get that grip. Then you can draw and make sure you still have that establish index and natural POA. I hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve L Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Wait, I just reassess my strong hand grip on my G17. Instead of letting the rear of the gun contours on my thumbs/palm swell curve. I shifted the gun a little more on the meatiest part of my hand, and I don't aim off to the left, WOW!!! Thanks a lot Steve Hey, glad to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Be sure to check out this thread: Wanna-b-speedy (part2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Way back in the day, one thing I did that helped me learn to shoot at the center of an IPSC target - I outliined the entire A box with 1/2" wide, white masking tape. Then at 10, 15, 25, and 50 yards, I'd shoot slow fire groups on one target, paying particulare attention to how the entire target - and the outline of the A box and the target itself "looked" against my sight picture, at each distance. After you can consistently shoot the middle of each A box at each distance, then set a target without an outlined A box next to each target with an outlined A box... then draw to the outlined target and shoot 2 shots, then shoot 2 shots on the non-outlined target. Then reverse that - draw to the non-outlined target, then shoot 2 on the outlined target. Then from that start, come up with other scenarios to set up, until you can shoot the center of the A box at any distance. If you don't consistently shoot the middle of the outlined A box, you might try putting a paster / BrianEnos.com sticker in the middle of the A box as well. Then when you are centering the A box, remove the paster and just shoot to the outlined A box until you can remove the outline and shoot to the center of the A box. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Good advice, I'll try them out, thanks a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 At this moment it seems to me that I can hit the 10 yards farther with speed and consistency needed with one eyes closed on paper And I can hit 8" plates as far as 20m with both eyes open. I guess I'll just have to line with this set-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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