Area 4 50 Yard Stage

[sfinney]

I think Jack's original thread was geared to how would you best shoot this Limited ..... of course, its a

no brainer if shooting Open, go for all 6 shots every string.

I'm a low A in Limited, and struggling between hanging it out and trying to get lucky (no risk, no reward?), or shooting within a set pace to maximize hits. I can get off all six shots, but not with consistency -

Oh well, when the buzzer goes off I'm sure I'll just blast away like normal, and hope for the best, plans or not

Or practice more .... theres an idea

[sfinney]

Hmmm... maybe I'm doing my math wrong, but....

Beep!

2 second draw, bang 1. (2.0)

.5 split bang 2 (2.5)

.5 split bang 3 (3.0)

2 Second reload, bang 4 (5.0)

Beep!

5 seconds, only 4 shots at a .5 split.

Or am I missing something

[uscbigdawg]

Nope that was me. I'll take the shoes off the next time I'm syphorin' (spelling).

Make it a 1.5 draw and 1.5 reload. Still totally do-able.

Rich

[sfinney]

Yep, thats about the math I'm runnig into in practice.... what normaly is a 1 second draw turns into 1.5 due to the 50yds, same for reload -

My sixth shot is off just as the beep sounds, if I nail the draw and reload. But that gets me anywhere from 3 C/D hits, to 1 or 2 As and a few C/Ds - just can't call them that fast so far. But the big risk is: three bad hurried shots (say 2 Ds, 1 miss, and a bobbled reload - beep! - now you're at 4 points from 3 shots instead of 15.

So I know I can do it physically, just have to practice the 50 yds part. Confidence will come with practice. If I can get 2 As 2Cs 2Ds I'm ahead of the game, with 20 points, vs. 15..... even if I miss a couple it'll probably wash at 14 or 16 points if I get at least 2 As. 3 As and anything else is gravy.

[Detlef]

Rich,

Frank Garcia told me once (verbatim), 6 As in 6 sec at 25 y is Limited GM performance in a match. This is w/o reload, and to this day I cannot do it 5 times in a row, in practice. Add 50 y, and add a reload, and I have seen the wheels come off double world champs like Ted Bonnet in big matches. Yes, Robbie can probably do 3 reload 3 in 5.3 sec all day long, but to anyone else all 6 good hits @ 50 y in 5.3 sec are EXTREMELY tough and dangerous! In a big match, it does not pay to roll the dice... Yes, your mental garbage is your fault, but you might as well realize that you bring it and act accordingly.

.50 splits at 50 y are very aggressive and amount to 2 sec; add 2 sec draw and 2 sec reload/split, you're overtime already.

Jack, I'd have thunk you would tell us? In your best days, would you have gone for the reload or not? I assume so (5Cs is much better than 3 As)?

--Detlef

[j1b]

You know its interesting - I could debate with myself on this issue.

Earlier I made the statement that if this stage were nearing the end and I was behind by only a few points that I'd probably go for it. The ironic thing is why wouldn't I do it if its the first stage of the match then? I mean, I've lost matches by less than 5 points before - aren't we always scraping to get as many points as we can?

That said - in my good days - I would definilty go for it. I'd hammer out half second splits and run. I'd probably only get 5 shots off. Maybe six - but regardless I'd complete the load and crank a couple more.

So that's what I'll do. Obviously almost all of us can pull this off. If I get 4 shots off, six, or 5 probably doesn't matter. Assuming I'm doing my job the hits should be decent whatever shots get off and that should accurately reflect what my score should be. If I do that - the most I'd give up is probably 15 points, and there's the possibility to gain points if I do everything right. The important thing is good hits. Five C's totals 20 points. Four A's totals 20 points. For me, the goal will be to shoot 20 points on the first string. If I shoot 25 great - if I shoot 15 . . . recoverable.

I would tell anyone though that .50 splits with a limited gun at 50 yards is pushing the envelop. Can it be done? Certainly - so can .30 splits. One time I set up a steel target down range and just cranked to see what could be done. Its all doable - but not necessarily realistic.

I would never discount the open guys - but the stage is obvious with an open gun. You have to go for it AND get good points. The guns are set up to accomplish just that. That steel target @ 50 yards? I won't even brag what I could do with my open 9X25

I do appreciate you guys helping me find the answer to the question. Now I get to practice that one important thing I call execution.

JB

[Loves2Shoot]

Rich,

Frank Garcia told me once (verbatim), 6 As in 6 sec at 25 y is Limited GM performance in a match. This is w/o reload, and to this day I cannot do it 5 times in a row, in practice. Add 50 y, and add a reload, and I have seen the wheels come off double world champs like Ted Bonnet in big matches. Yes, Robbie can probably do 3 reload 3 in 5.3 sec all day long, but to anyone else all 6 good hits @ 50 y in 5.3 sec are EXTREMELY tough and dangerous! In a big match, it does not pay to roll the dice... Yes, your mental garbage is your fault, but you might as well realize that you bring it and act accordingly.

.50 splits at 50 y are very aggressive and amount to 2 sec; add 2 sec draw and 2 sec reload/split, you're overtime already.

Jack, I'd have thunk you would tell us? In your best days, would you have gone for the reload or not? I assume so (5Cs is much better than 3 As)?

--Detlef

I belive that is 6 upper a/b zone hits in 6 seconds at 25 yards(Frank's quote) which, believe it or not is easier for me than body A's, the target is more defined. Body A's at 50 aren't worth the time you end up aking to try to get them at 50. C's are fine at 50 IMO. If I break good center of mass shots I get as good of a score as trying for the A, the splits are faster and more consistant also.

[Detlef]

actually, Frank's quote was for body As. Though he may have modified his challenge over time. I consider the body As the real task because that's what they give you at and beyond 25 (have yet to encounter a high-level IPSC match with head shots at/past 25 y).

Indeed, in Limited, going for A/C at 50 y under any kind of time pressure is the thing to do. But if I had 8 sec and going prone was allowed, I'd go for the As. Standing is a different animal at 50...

In Production, you get only 3 pts for Cs, and even at 50 I'd want to get all As. With a little bit of extra care (& time...), I find this quite possible.

--Detlef

[shred]

I finally got a chance to play with this stage.. We ran it in last weekends match and I had good points, but didn't get all the shots off, so I went down to the local 50 yd Bullseye range and terrorized the poor dears this evening (actually no poor dears were extant at the time, which is probably a good thing ).

Shooting open, most of my 3-reload-3 runs were about 4.8 with a 1.3 draw, .40-.50 splits and a 1.50 reload. Bobbling the reload or draw would put me just over 5 sec, but usually under 5.3. Way too many of my runs had 5 ok hits and a mystery-miss, which got so irritating next time I'm bringing two targets and shooting one before the reload and one after (I suspect my eye focus is still at short-range after the reload). Kneeling, I had plenty of time. Draw at about 1.7-1.8 and the splits about .6 each. Prone is a no-no at this range (they must be getting ready for Bianchi), so I didn't try that.

The stage description says -10 for overtime shots, but the usual is -5, which makes a overtime shot a lot less painful if it was an A.

I also discovered that my Dillon HP1 ears will completely block the end-buzz from my CED if I shoot anywhere between 5.01 and 5.20. That's not good.

[Jake Di Vita]

Hmm

Even though I'm not shooting A4, I think I need to set this one up and play around with it for awhile.

[shred]

It's definately a good drill. Get to it.

[TDean]

I think my approach would be 3 well aimed shots, then reload and dump 3 more at the target (hoping for any points I can get).

Draw 1.8

split .50

split .50

reload 1.5

split .35

split .35

5 seconds even....

Don't rush it, just do it.

Better yet, just put this stage out of your head so you don't become fixated on it.

It can be done and you can do it as well as anybody.