Squib Talk Q/A

[OpenDot]

Mods please move this to where ever this topic should be or merge if needed but I didn't see any one thread for this subject alone with Q/A

First i'd like to thank everyone on this forum for providing all the info that you do. Without it... I wouldn't have an open gun right now. So, last night I had my very first squib.

http://youtu.be/7H1Pqeya2S8 listen after the reload for the "pop".

I take great pride in my reloads. My Dad always said "your life or somebody elses life is in your hands when you reload, be very careful and double check everything". I inspect and tumble all brass before loading and even after i'm done to remove the lube. I take my time on the major loads the most, triple check powder drops every 10-25 rounds, visually inspect station #2 after the powder drops in the case on every round, inspect all brass, try not to get lube inside the cases, gauge and barrel check every round and so on. If something doesn't feel right or look right it get's the bullet hammer treatment.

Now, yesterday in Phx it was 116 degrees and the match was after work. My gear was in my trunk of my car baking in that hot ass sun all day. Could this have been the factor... my buddy said yes... I say maybe...leaning towards No.

124gr MG JHP

Autocomp

Win SRP

Mixed Brass

Was excessive heat 140+ degrees in the trunk to blame?

Is there anything that can be done to prevent this from happeneing again?

How often do you guys see stuff like this with your own loads?

[outerlimits]

if it was just a primer and no powder, almost 99% of the time a 9mm or 38 super would not travel far enuf down the barrel to allow chambering another round.

[gng4life]

Wow, now that's what I call really checking your reloading process - I think you have most people beat when it comes to that. With the way you have your pattern setup, seems highly unlikely that you did not do a powder drop but from the looks of the top photo - that's very indicative. How far in is that bullet? The only thing I can think of (and I've done this before) is when you pull the case out to check the powder, you empty the case and put it back in the press. You may have inadvertently rotated it before doing the next powder drop. We all can get distracted a little and it may have been one of those times. Not sure but seems the most logical.

As far as the heat, I truly doubt it. I was in the desert for many years with temperatures routinely higher than 116 (average 130-135 some parts of the year) and I have never seen a squib from that. The only thing close was a "cook-off" when the barrels get way too hot.

Glad you caught it and nothing major happened. Things like this happen, I've been reloading for 19 years and it's happened twice to me. They were in the early learning stages of reloading but it can happen to all of us at any time - always double check everything.

[Graham Smith]

Is there anything that can be done to prevent this from happeneing again?

Check, check, and check again. That's about the only thing that can be said.

The more automated the process, the less involvement you have, the less chance there is that YOU will do something wrong. The flip side to that is that you will also be less likely to spot something if it does go wrong.

Everyone has a routine they follow. I load on a 550B standing up and look into every case at the powder station to make sure it has powder in it. But if I am distracted I may miss something just the same. So, whenever something disturbs me, I always stop and recheck everything in front of me. If there is any question I set aside any bullets on the press.

[OpenDot]

Gentleman thank you for your input!!!

The only thing I can think of (and I've done this before) is when you pull the case out to check the powder, you empty the case and put it back in the press. You may have inadvertently rotated it before doing the next powder drop.

That makes sinse because I do often remeasure powder drops usually 4 times every 100rounds or so to make sure nothing has changed. Wife, Kids, dogs, phone.... i'm leaning towards these and a distraction. Thanks for the input for sure!!!

My gun runs, runs and runs. I've never had a malfunction with this gun. Every problem i've had has been ammo related in the early stages of me reloading (550B almost 2 years now). I didn't used to be this anal about it but sinse I started my process I never have a problem with jams or anything..until last night and I bet that's what it was.

Back in the day with my Dad out on the garage.. we made our own bullets with the lead pot and reloaded on a single stage. 38's, 357's, 30-06 and 12 ga were what we did most back then.

From now on, when I empty a case to check powder..i'll put them aside and do them last.

Thanks again!

[BBBB]

I load on a 550B also. I consider any time I stop the routine for any reason a time to double check everything. It seems to me like this is by far the most likely time where a mistake could happen. I look at all 4 positions of the shell plate and make sure what I see makes sense. I think it's important with any press but especially important with this one since the index is manual.

[g56]

45+ years reloading, 26 years on a Dillon RL550, 100,000+ loads on the Dillon, I have had one squib in that entire reloading history, it was before I got the Dillon, so it was loaded on a single stage press, I took all the standard precautions, loading all the cases with powder, then shining a flashlight down on the loading block to make sure that all the cases had a powder charge, but still somehow I missed it.

I was shooting a compact S&W 9mm model 469, barrel about 3.5", and I got a "pop" instead of a bang, even though I'd never had it happen, I knew exactly what it was, and sure enough, the jacketed bullet was lodged about half way down the barrel. The barrel was put in a vice using wood blocks to protect it, and a brass rod was used to push the bullet out of the barrel, it was surprising how much force it took.

[rfwobbly]

Here's one of my son shooting a PA63 with factory loaded Winchester white box. Watch the 3rd round. Squibs do happen.

Click Here

His issue turned out to be that Winchester forgot to place lead in the jacketed bullet!

Edited June 30, 2011 by rfwobbly

[Flexmoney]

That makes sinse because I do often remeasure powder drops usually 4 times every 100rounds or so to make sure nothing has changed. Wife, Kids, dogs, phone.... i'm leaning towards these and a distraction.

Probably somewhere in there. I'd suspect the measuring 4x per 100. At that point, it is probably overkill...and allowing in a point for process failure.

If you want to be anal (nothing wrong with that for reloading), try this instead...

- As you start, throw a few round to make sure the powder drop has settled in. Then, take your first measurement.

- If you adjust, throw a few more before taking the next measurement.

- Once set...do 10 more drops, adding each to the powder scale pan as you go. Note any variances (you shouldn't see any)

- Now, take any brass, powder, components, etc. used so far and set them aside. (Good housekeeping...start fresh.)

- You should be able to load with confidence now. Now need to remove a round from the shell plate to check it. It is better off staying on the shell plate.

- As you load, eyeball each piece of brass, note the powder level. This is your visual check.

- After a 100 rounds, when you go to load more primer in, take a measurement then...and leave that piece of brass out and set aside. once it is out, don't reintroduce it back into the process.

Turn off your phone, kids, wife and dog.

Also...take off your powder measure and dump it. Then, turn it up-side down a few times and check that nothing has gotten dropped into your powder measure. If there is something in there, it might hide and get stuck under the bridge when you do the upside down thing. Look for that.

[gng4life]

Here's one of my son shooting a PA63 with factory loaded Winchester white box. Watch the 3rd round. Squibs do happen.

Click Here

His issue turned out to be that Winchester forgot to place lead in the jacketed bullet!

Interesting, even better that you got it on video and were able to stop before any real damage occurred. Thanks for the pics and vids!

[OpenDot]

That makes sinse because I do often remeasure powder drops usually 4 times every 100rounds or so to make sure nothing has changed. Wife, Kids, dogs, phone.... i'm leaning towards these and a distraction.

Probably somewhere in there. I'd suspect the measuring 4x per 100. At that point, it is probably overkill...and allowing in a point for process failure.

If you want to be anal (nothing wrong with that for reloading), try this instead...

- As you start, throw a few round to make sure the powder drop has settled in. Then, take your first measurement.

- If you adjust, throw a few more before taking the next measurement.

- Once set...do 10 more drops, adding each to the powder scale pan as you go. Note any variances (you shouldn't see any)

- Now, take any brass, powder, components, etc. used so far and set them aside. (Good housekeeping...start fresh.)

- You should be able to load with confidence now. Now need to remove a round from the shell plate to check it. It is better off staying on the shell plate.

- As you load, eyeball each piece of brass, note the powder level. This is your visual check.

- After a 100 rounds, when you go to load more primer in, take a measurement then...and leave that piece of brass out and set aside. once it is out, don't reintroduce it back into the process.

Turn off your phone, kids, wife and dog.

Also...take off your powder measure and dump it. Then, turn it up-side down a few times and check that nothing has gotten dropped into your powder measure. If there is something in there, it might hide and get stuck under the bridge when you do the upside down thing. Look for that.

Great Advice, thanks Flex!!!!

Here's one of my son shooting a PA63 with factory loaded Winchester white box. Watch the 3rd round. Squibs do happen.

Click Here

His issue turned out to be that Winchester forgot to place lead in the jacketed bullet!

never seen that one either!!

[Tim/GA]

Was there any powder in the barrel after your squib? I have had 2 in the last year and both had powder in the cases. The first one there was a pop and then what can only be described as a "sizzle". That one jammed the bullet 1/2" from the muzzle of a Glock 35 AND chambered a new round. Thankfully the RO and I both heard it. Could not get that one out at the range, broke one guy's squib rod, had to put penetrating oil in over night and knock it out with a duct tape wrapped steel rod. Don't know if the powder somehow was contaminated or maybe a partially blocked primer hole? Seems like it must have blown the powder out of the case and into the barrel where it burned.

The second happened at the SC Section Championship this year. That one sounded just like yours and I automatically chambered a new round but both the RO and I stopped before I pulled the trigger. I had powder all over my arm and jammed in the barrel behind the bullet which was only about 1/2" into the barrel. This one popped out easily once the gun was disassembled. I know the primer was not in backwards but don't know why this one happened.

[g56]

As a former Hunter Safety Instructor and Home Firearm Safety Instructor, I feel compelled to comment on the careless firearm handling at the start of the video. The shooter has the gun in his hand as he pulls up his sleeves, the gun is pointed in the general direction of his left hand, I understand he hasn't chambered a round yet, but the gun is loaded even though there isn't one in the chamber, this is an accident waiting to happen. If you want to adjust your clothing, PUT THE GUN DOWN FIRST.

Here's one of my son shooting a PA63 with factory loaded Winchester white box. Watch the 3rd round. Squibs do happen.

Click Here

His issue turned out to be that Winchester forgot to place lead in the jacketed bullet!

[OpenDot]

Was there any powder in the barrel after your squib? I have had 2 in the last year and both had powder in the cases. The first one there was a pop and then what can only be described as a "sizzle". That one jammed the bullet 1/2" from the muzzle of a Glock 35 AND chambered a new round. Thankfully the RO and I both heard it. Could not get that one out at the range, broke one guy's squib rod, had to put penetrating oil in over night and knock it out with a duct tape wrapped steel rod. Don't know if the powder somehow was contaminated or maybe a partially blocked primer hole? Seems like it must have blown the powder out of the case and into the barrel where it burned.

The second happened at the SC Section Championship this year. That one sounded just like yours and I automatically chambered a new round but both the RO and I stopped before I pulled the trigger. I had powder all over my arm and jammed in the barrel behind the bullet which was only about 1/2" into the barrel. This one popped out easily once the gun was disassembled. I know the primer was not in backwards but don't know why this one happened.

No powder in Barrel or on me anywhere... the ejected case was black though so it had some but not much at all..

[Rico567]

"Flexmoney"'s advice is excellent, speaking from over 40 years of reloading. Develop a system, know that it works, and do not deviate from it. Nowhere more than in reloading is "the devil in the details." To my mind the biggest factor in enabling attention to detail is the most important line in "Flexmoney"'s post:

Turn off your phone, kids, wife and dog.

We tend to be unaware of the multitude of distractions in our lives, and these have no place at the reloading bench. I've cringed on multiple occasions, reading of someone talking about watching TV, listening to the radio, or drinking alcohol while reloading. I do all those things......upstairs and away from the bench. I think I fail to appreciate my dark and rather "unfinished" basement, because other people tend to stay out when I'm doing things, such as reloading.

Of course, I had a dear friend who violated all those rules, and pretty much his whole life, God rest his soul.....and he got away with it. He tended to reload already loaded, play all sorts of music, smoked like a pile of burning tires, kept open containers of powder sitting around and glass jars full of primers. He was not only a poster boy for how not to reload (he once loaded 5K (yep, that's 5,000) blue pill .38 Specials, and to top it off was likely to have his casting furnace -in the same area- all fired up. And yet the closest he ever came to a disaster was bulging the barrel of a 1911 with another of his famous nitro loads. He died on his kitchen floor of congestive heart failure. The question is: do you think he was a statistical anomaly, and do you feel as lucky?

[GrumpyOne]

Randy, I hate to say it, but more than likely the squib was human error....Like a few others are saying, you are checking too much...Once my powder bar is set on my 550, and I don't get up and leave, I routinley load 500-700 rounds without checking it again. The less you fool with the press, the better...less introduced errors....Or, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."