Chrono'd my SP01

[JonF]

Recently chrono'd my handloads in my SP01 for the first time to primarily try to diagnose an ejection problem that's been plaguing me lately. Every couple hundred rounds (at least once per match), a case extracts from the chamber, but does not eject from the gun and stays in the gun while new round tries to load causing significant jam where i have to drop the mag, rack-rack and reload. Anyways, my real observation in this experiment was to see if my loads were healthy enough for solid overall ejection and meeting adequate PF since they dont fly very far out of the gun at all. As a reference, i also chrono'd my M&P9L 5" barrel and what i observed was that for the same loads, the CZ was significantly slower even considering it has 1/4" shorter barrel. Now, the Smith is brand new and the CZ has about 7K rounds through it so perhaps that may add to the overall equation here. Do CZ's have any reputation for shooting slower compared to the competition?

I chrono'd several loads i had on hand, one known for making minor PF and some slightly downloaded for just messing around. Here's my results:

I don't like that my extreme spread is so high; i think thats not a very reassuring sign of my powder measure, especially compared to the small sample of factory S&B ammo (6 rounds is literally all i had on hand, lol).

Anyways, my velocities look good and even with the 4.2gr of N320 solidly making minor PF, i still get a FTEject every couple hundred rounds so it can't be all that weak of a charge. The ejection is a little wimpy though as it dribbles out of the ejection port and falls down between my arms in front of my face. I don't recall factory ammo being as lethargic to evacuate empties from the gun but its been some time since i've shot any factory ammo.

Firearm:	SP01	SP01	SP01	SP01	M&P9L	M&P9L	M&P9L

Powder Type:	Titegrp	S&B	N320	N320	N320	N320	Titegrp
Powder (gr):	3.6	?	3.8	4.2	3.8	4.2	3.6
Bullet Type:	MG JHP	FMJ	MG JHP	MG JHP	MG JHP	MG JHP	MG JHP
Bullet Wt (gr):	124	115	124	124	124	124	124

OAL:	        1.090"	?	1.090"	1.090"	1.090"	1.090"	1.090"
Case:	        mixed	S&B	mixed		mixed	mixed	mixed
Primer:	        CCI 500	S&B	CCI 500		CCI 500	CCI 500	CCI 500

Low Vel:	942	1139	954	1038	1009	1054	988
High Vel:	987	1165	1011	1072	1049	1087	1021
Average (Av):	964	1,154	984	1,048	1,025	1,068	1,001
Extrm Sprd:	45	26	57	34	40	33	33
Std Dev (Sd):	13.55	11.99	15.22	10.65	13.76	9.29	9.78
Power Factor:	119.62	132.75	122.07	130.00	127.12	132.51	124.20

Shot 10:        987		954	1056	1009	1071	999
Shot 9:	        977		981	1055	1027	1054	1001
Shot 8:	        960		973	1072	1023	1068	1005
Shot 7:	        948		979	1050	1040	1071	1011
Shot 6:	        959	1162	988	1040	1023	1074	1003
Shot 5:	        966	1139	983	1038	1017	1058	1021
Shot 4:	        965	1161	1011	1038	1014	1072	1004
Shot 3:	        977	1139	989	1047	1049	1070	988
Shot 2:	        966	1165	986	1048	1040	1087	992
Shot 1:	        942	1160	1000	1040	1010	1061	992

Edited June 28, 2011 by JonF

[burningsquirrels]

you could try reprofiling your ejector, that fixes most ejection issues. also check the health of your extractor. those are the two most common problems.

you can also try replacing the extractor spring or putting a tuned plus power spring, but is probably the less likely culprit.

last but not least, also with light loads, what recoil spring are you running? most of us run 10 or 11 pounds. too strong a spring (like the stock 18#'er) will have weak ejection since the slide doesn't come back fast enough to bang it out of there, but an unlikely case if you're making PF.

also, check this link:

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=22862.0

[burningsquirrels]

though it should be noted... in both my guns, the tip of the ejector is opposite of the picture in that thread. mine are pointed at the bottom and lay back at an almost 30* angle with the face slightly towards the ejection port... it also works well too. i guess most anything other than factory helps.

[burningsquirrels]

FWIW, i use 4.07 of TG behind 125 jhp zero at 1.085" to make 132 PF consistently.

[PistoleroJesse]

Pay no attention. Didn't read the whole topic before posting.

Burningsquirrls has the right idea. I had a SP01, had the same issue and it turned out to be a recoilspring/low powder charge issue. Up your powder to weaken your spring.

Edited June 28, 2011 by PistoleroJesse

[CocoBolo]

The only issue I have had with the CZ platform is that the extractor gets coated with burn residue, this will produce some stove pipes. I take it out and clean it till the surfaces that contact the slide are slick.

Following your logic, when you are reloading do you ever encounter any powder sling, like when a primer is hard to seat, or when a round gets caught up on the ejector spring? It happens to me on my XL650 Loading 9 major and even sometimes loading 9 minor. What you do when this happens could have a profond effect on the outcome. I stop remove the case pour the powder back in the hopper and set the brass aside. What do you do? This just might be happening about every 200 rounds.

I'm on the same page with you, provided that you have paid attention when this happens and you know it does not happen when only mag #4 is in the gun. You are cleaning those mags every time they hit the ground right?

You carefully dropped checked every round after reloading and they fell in and fell out else they went to the practice bucket right?

Your crono results look typical. I load my ammo for my Shadow a lot longer than you load yours I'm at 1.145 Zero JHP 147gr or 124gr RN. I have had 1 jam in the last 3K rounds, attributed it to Limp Wristing the gun.

Edited June 28, 2011 by CocoBolo

[JonF]

Squirrels,

My SP01 is one of the CZ Custom shop pre-shadow guns. Its got all the same specs (springs, trigger work, etc) and the FPB removed as the current shadow customs. I do give the gun a pretty thorough cleaning every other match or so (~500rds) but perhaps i should just give the extractor hook and channel a scrub more frequently? I never really cleaned the extractor with any specificity other than a quick hit with the scrub brush as i was brushing the breech face and chamber area clean. I'll have to take a closer look at the extractor itself to see if there is anything awry with the hook portion. I'll try to get a macro shot to show as i'm not sure i'll be able to identify any issue with it other than an obvious breakage.

[JonF]

CocoBolo,

I do get some powder slinging on my LnL but not as much when loading my 9mm minor loads. Especially since i load and shoot N320 as its a large extruded stick powder, very little ever jumps out (maybe 1 granule if any). Although if any does get loose, because its so large, it could shave a few hundredths of a grain off my charge, but i'm not sure if that's enough to drop my overall charge into the danger zone. I notice this spillage more with magnum calibers where the cases are much more full and house up to 6x more powder than my 9mm charges. That coupled with the fact that the powders i use for those calibers are a fine ball powder that spills more easily, the issue seems exacerbated. Coincidentally, i just posted about this phenomenon in the non-dillon forum to see if anyone else notices it and has any suggestions for adjusting the shell plate timing.

I do not check any of the ammo in a chamber gauge. I spot check my OAL's but assume my sizing die is doing its job. Would adding such a check aid me in some way? Not sure i follow you thought here.

[burningsquirrels]

the best way to clean the extractor is to take a pin punch and remove it to clear out all debris. takes just a min after you've done it once and know what to do.

drive the pin out from under the slide. before removing the punch, clasp the extractor inside your hand to keep it from flying out as you remove the punch. this lets you get in there behind it and clean all the gunk out. to reassemble, i drive it back in from underneath - i start the pin into the hole, then press the extractor into the slide as i hammer down. once it's retained i use the punch to drive hte pin all the rest of the way in.

that said, i have about 7k since i last cleaned the gun in october. before every major match (about once a month) i'll do a short lube routine and knock crud out from behind the hook and feed ramp. i haven't had problems with the extractor yet. titegroup burns relatively clean for me with my load, so it doesn't really build up all that much.

[burningsquirrels]

on the 650 spilling powder, check this: http://www.tinymicros.com/wiki/Dillon_XL_650_Modifications

as for case gauging the rounds, i have a 50 hole checker from EGW. i have a few every now and then it catches. i toss them into the practice pile. it's cheap insurance. it has caught a cracked case more than once and a couple bad crimps or damaged rims.

[eerw]

you can also get significant difference between barrels. I had one SP01 chrono consistently 20fps faster than another SP01 I had.

on CZs, keep the extractor area clean and reprofile the ejector.

[CZinSC]

the best way to clean the extractor is to take a pin punch and remove it to clear out all debris. takes just a min after you've done it once and know what to do.

drive the pin out from under the slide. before removing the punch, clasp the extractor inside your hand to keep it from flying out as you remove the punch. this lets you get in there behind it and clean all the gunk out. to reassemble, i drive it back in from underneath - i start the pin into the hole, then press the extractor into the slide as i hammer down. once it's retained i use the punch to drive hte pin all the rest of the way in.

that said, i have about 7k since i last cleaned the gun in october. before every major match (about once a month) i'll do a short lube routine and knock crud out from behind the hook and feed ramp. i haven't had problems with the extractor yet. titegroup burns relatively clean for me with my load, so it doesn't really build up all that much.

And when you clean in the extractor area, use a dental pick, or some other device. I used gunscrubber and a tooth brush, but not until i used a dental pick did i see a sea of crap flying out. You will be amazed how much buildup gets in there. If you don't have dental picks, you can get them at Wally World for about $5. Should have a pick and a scraper. The scraper is the one you want to use in there.

[JonF]

The Hornady works a little differently than the Dillon with respect to fastening the shell plate. On the Hornady, the fastening bolt rotates *With* the shell plate so an upper bearing wouldn't provide any added function there.

That 50 hole gauge looks intriguing. Can you flip that over on your ammo box to transfer the entire lot right into the individual compartments? That would be a definite time saver as handing each round several times adds a lot of extra time to completion.

[burningsquirrels]

oops, i thought you had a 650, i misread coz i was talking to someone about 650s just now lol.

no, you can't transfer into the ammo box - i wish it did!! what i do is i have two index cards glued together. after i mark with a sharpie, i cover it with the cards, then flip over and pull the cards. that way, all the ammo is standing up on the table, which makes it easy to grab in fours and put into ammo trays.

like they said, get a pick set like this: http://tinyurl.com/3dbh2b8 it makes cleaning a lot easier in there, and for assembly/disassembly in a couple places.