AR Trigger Pole...I mean Poll

[bagdrag]

Just got a Nordic Comp NC22 and my JP-15 upper is looking to get another lower to play with. Want to know what people are using and why? It would really be helpful if you indicate if you own or have owned more than one of the above triggers and why you selected the one you use for 3-gun. I've got an AR Gold right now and just want to feel for what else might be out there. The JP for $499 as a complete lower is a fantastic bargain but the Geissele S3G's rolling trigger sounds interesting.

Thanks for the help. Please don't just say JP, they support our sport. I'm already giving them bonus points for that as well as their hard to beat price.

Edited March 10, 2011 by bagdrag

[cardiackid]

I purchased a Geissele S3G (standard rounded face) for my latest build and absolutely love it. I haven't had the chance to shoot any other precision style trigger groups, but compared to an OEM/parts kit trigger it's an absolute dream. I'm hard pressed to believe that I'd shoot another weapon with a different trigger and say "whoops - made a mistake. I need that one instead of the S3G." I am curious to shoot a JP group as a comparison however, based on their great reviews and the fact that their little $7 yellow springs had a great feel compared to the original DPMS parts kit springs I had originally.

[bagdrag]

Thanks for replying. The S3G is one of the triggers that has caught my eye, especially with the rolling break. The JP is the other contender and I believe I read a comment where they compared the JP to a good bolt gun trigger. That sounded really interesting to me too. I'd really be interested how the trigger travel is on the JP as it relates to the trigger pull weight. I've compared graphs between the Geissele S3G and the AR Gold and they have really short trigger travel. I don't know what the reset travel is like on the Geissele but the AR Gold's reset is superb. Can you describe the reset on the S3G? Btw, I've never felt an OEM trigger before so I wouldn't know what they are like. The closest I have come to an OEM trigger was a Rock River trigger that was modified with a trigger job.

Here are the graphs I mentioned:

Anybody have one for the JP trigger?

Edited March 10, 2011 by bagdrag

[kurtm]

I can't respond to yor poll be cause it won't allow me to vote in just one poll and I don't use ANY Geissele trigger. I don't think John has a cool graph like those...maybe why they are less costly

In reality J.P. triggers are the standard by which all other,s are measured so I guess it stands on it's own, and I do believe the J.P. lower can be had for $299 with trigger intalled, perhapse the $499. is Complete? KurtM

[bagdrag]

I can't respond to yor poll be cause it won't allow me to vote in just one poll and I don't use ANY Geissele trigger. I don't think John has a cool graph like those...maybe why they are less costly

In reality J.P. triggers are the standard by which all other,s are measured so I guess it stands on it's own, and I do believe the J.P. lower can be had for $299 with trigger intalled, perhapse the $499. is Complete? KurtM

Sorry, didn't know that about the way the poll was setup and yes, the $499 is for a complete lower. With everything that comes with the complete lower (lower, lpk, JP trigger, A2 or ARFX Stock, and LMOS buffer) $499 is super cheap to me and I don't have that much interest in building my own lower again.

So does the JP compare to bolt gun triggers or is it a different animal completely? Btw, thanks for offering your expertise whoever you are.

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Wait a minute, kurtm. Your not related to that Kurt Miller guy who wins 3-gun with iron sights are you?

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Also edited the poll. You should be able to vote for "don't own a geissele". Sorry to make you vote for two things. I wonder if this is why the JP is trailing in this poll. Been surprised by that so far.

Edited March 10, 2011 by bagdrag

[cardiackid]

Btw, I've never felt an OEM trigger before so I wouldn't know what they are like

Seriously? That's like skipping your first car and hopping in a ferrari for your first drive, lol. Can't really describe it (not in a scientific way with all the graphs, etc. anyway) Comparing a $200+ trigger group to an OEM trigger is really apples to oranges if you've never shot one. Geissele to JP would be more like macintosh to red delicious. I guess it feels good? It's just unbelievably smoother - the take up is very gradual and smooth, overall travel is much shorter and reset is snappier. I suppose I'm happy with it because for the first time I've actually been able to fire controlled pairs at any distance beyond 10m. The trigger has been icing on the cake after switching to an 18" rlgs with a comp on the new build versus a heavily over gassed 14.5 clgs with a hider and the OEM trigger.

Regarding the JP compared to a bolt gun trigger - never shot one, but I can't imagine putting anything that would feel like a bolt gun trigger in my AR. I have a jewell in my .308 and it's a totally different monster than the geissele.

[kurtm]

Yes he is a very distance cousin...probably married to his sister or something, Isn't he from Arkansas or something? Oh wait he doesn't have a sister but he works in Wyoming...Sheep??

The J.P. is like a very finely tuned Bolt gun trigger. no creep and about a 2-2 1/4 pull as adjusted by John...and mine has gone over 20,000 rounds of flawless service. I have had several folks say well J.P.s will never be like this...and I just hand them My rifle to try... even Gold Triggers, which are darn good are judged about the same or just a bit less... but that is subjection. J.P. and don't worry about looking back!

[RWF]

i used the JP for a long time and still have some in use.

but i had to vote other because now i use the wilson combat TTU single stage in my 3 gun AR.

[bagdrag]

Btw, I've never felt an OEM trigger before so I wouldn't know what they are like

Seriously? That's like skipping your first car and hopping in a ferrari for your first drive, lol. Can't really describe it (not in a scientific way with all the graphs, etc. anyway) Comparing a $200+ trigger group to an OEM trigger is really apples to oranges if you've never shot one. Geissele to JP would be more like macintosh to red delicious. I guess it feels good? It's just unbelievably smoother - the take up is very gradual and smooth, overall travel is much shorter and reset is snappier. I suppose I'm happy with it because for the first time I've actually been able to fire controlled pairs at any distance beyond 10m. The trigger has been icing on the cake after switching to an 18" rlgs with a comp on the new build versus a heavily over gassed 14.5 clgs with a hider and the OEM trigger.

Regarding the JP compared to a bolt gun trigger - never shot one, but I can't imagine putting anything that would feel like a bolt gun trigger in my AR. I have a jewell in my .308 and it's a totally different monster than the geissele.

Yeah, a friend turned me on to action shooting and this forum and all of a sudden I couldn't stand most stock equipment. The AR Gold grabbed at me because they compared it to a 1911 trigger which I love. Funny enough I think my AR Gold feels better than my custom 1911 trigger.

Don't get intimidated by the graphs, it just helps me visualize since I can see the data on the graph and transfer it to what I think I might experience. For instance, I believe the Geissele S3G has very minimal take-up (if any) and then once you reach a certain amount of finger pressure continues to travel smoothly until the hammer falls. Did I describe that correctly? I'm thinking it might compare to the Para-Ord LDA triggers (just much much shorter travel), but I haven't tried one of those either. Btw, after reset is the trigger pull another smooth motion back but just shorter?

Yes he is a very distance cousin...probably married to his sister or something, Isn't he from Arkansas or something? Oh wait he doesn't have a sister but he works in Wyoming...Sheep??

The J.P. is like a very finely tuned Bolt gun trigger. no creep and about a 2-2 1/4 pull as adjusted by John...and mine has gone over 20,000 rounds of flawless service. I have had several folks say well J.P.s will never be like this...and I just hand them My rifle to try... even Gold Triggers, which are darn good are judged about the same or just a bit less... but that is subjection. J.P. and don't worry about looking back!

Kurt I am thankful for the humor you interject into your words of wisdom. I really appreciate the breakdown on the JP trigger. It sounds pretty awesome. Considering it is comparable to my Gold trigger (except I've heard the JP has a more tactile and positive reset), the comparison is a good/bad thing for me. That's because I have the Gold and like the curious cat, I might be looking to try something else just to see what's out there. I do really like the level of quality JP delivers in all their products.

Decisions, decisions...

[bagdrag]

For those of you with the Geissele 3-gun, does this video reflect your experience of the trigger?

Not what I imagined. I guess those graphs didn't help for crap after all.

The pull of JP becomes stronger.

Edited March 10, 2011 by bagdrag

[Bryan 45]

I have JP, RRA 2 stage, and an AR Gold. JP is my favorite, I'd have a hard time picking between the ARG and the RR 2 stage for 2nd. I just don't like the reset on the Gold, nor the fact that the safety doesn't snap back onto SAFE.

[rc2125]

Recently had a rifle with a JP trigger and just last week I set up a rifle with the geissele S3G. Seems like the JP had a shorter distance of reset travel, but longer amount of travel to fire after reset. The description of the S3G's feel being similar to the para lda is accurate, a very smooth/light ball bearing feel pull, same from beginning to end of pull. The reset on the S3G seems a little longer than the JP had, but after reset I think it travels less before firing. I can't compare them side by side however, as I sold the rifle that had the JP trigger in it. Can't go wrong with either, imo, both seem like great triggers.

Edited March 10, 2011 by rc2125

[MarkCO]

A JP trigger fan here too. I set up one JP, once. Now, my JPs get set up by JP or Jim at Firebird. There are some things it just pays to get done right. I have felt some JPs in other people guns, set up by themselves or un-named builders, and my comment is consistently the same: send that to JP or Firebird and have them set up that trigger correctly. I flirted with the idea of putting one of JPs new trigger in my most recent lower, but then I just sent it in.

[bagdrag]

I have JP, RRA 2 stage, and an AR Gold. JP is my favorite, I'd have a hard time picking between the ARG and the RR 2 stage for 2nd. I just don't like the reset on the Gold, nor the fact that the safety doesn't snap back onto SAFE.

What don't you like about the reset on the Gold and how does the JP reset compare to the Gold? I can see what you mean about the safety, but turning it to FIRE is a snap so it doesn't bother me much.

Recently had a rifle with a JP trigger and just last week I set up a rifle with the geissele S3G. Seems like the JP had a shorter distance of reset travel, but longer amount of travel to fire after reset. The description of the S3G's feel being similar to the para lda is accurate, a very smooth/light ball bearing feel pull, same from beginning to end of pull. The reset on the S3G seems a little longer than the JP had, but after reset I think it travels less before firing. I can't compare them side by side however, as I sold the rifle that had the JP trigger in it. Can't go wrong with either, imo, both seem like great triggers.

Could it be that the JP traveled longer after reset because of longer overtravel on the JP? Also, who installed your JP trigger? What made you finally go with the Geissele instead of the JP? Did the Geissele just feel smoother? Thanks for confirming the Para LDA comparison.

A JP trigger fan here too. I set up one JP, once. Now, my JPs get set up by JP or Jim at Firebird. There are some things it just pays to get done right. I have felt some JPs in other people guns, set up by themselves or un-named builders, and my comment is consistently the same: send that to JP or Firebird and have them set up that trigger correctly. I flirted with the idea of putting one of JPs new trigger in my most recent lower, but then I just sent it in.

If I decide to go JP, I'll definitely buy a complete lower with the trigger installed by them. So far I haven't been convinced that the Geissele is worth the extra $cash$ over the JP deal.

Also, for those who know, what triggers do the big names use? I believe Miculek, Horner, and Voight use AR Gold, the Miller brothers use JP, and Noveske Shooting Team use Geissele. But what about guys like Butler, Johnson, Piatt, etc? I know it's the Indian and not the arrow, but sometimes the Indian likes the best arrows.

Edited March 10, 2011 by bagdrag

[VinceU1]

Actually I've got a RRA 2stage that's been tuned by the guys at WOA. Thing is sweet and crisp.

[MarkCO]

Also, for those who know, what triggers do the big names use? I believe Miculek, Horner, and Voight use AR Gold, the Miller brothers use JP, and Noveske Shooting Team use Geissele. But what about guys like Butler, Johnson, Piatt, etc? I know it's the Indian and not the arrow, but sometimes the Indian likes the best arrows.

There is a link on the 3Gun National Championship Point Series page that lists some equipment of some top shooters. Not complete, but a good start :http://3gncps.com/shooters.html

PS: As one of the big names (11 letters in my last name, most of the guys you listed have like 6 on average) you know what I shoot.

[bagdrag]

Actually I've got a RRA 2stage that's been tuned by the guys at WOA. Thing is sweet and crisp.

I played with a tuned RRA 2-stage trigger, and I have to admit that it would be a sweet setup for a precision AR build. The first stage was smooth and light and was very easy to stop at the second stage. A little more pressure and the second stage broke fantastically. Trigger pull felt long.

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I see that some of the JP guys are voting and indicating they also have a Geissele S3G care to comment and make a comparison.

[bagdrag]

Also, for those who know, what triggers do the big names use? I believe Miculek, Horner, and Voight use AR Gold, the Miller brothers use JP, and Noveske Shooting Team use Geissele. But what about guys like Butler, Johnson, Piatt, etc? I know it's the Indian and not the arrow, but sometimes the Indian likes the best arrows.

There is a link on the 3Gun National Championship Point Series page that lists some equipment of some top shooters. Not complete, but a good start :http://3gncps.com/shooters.html

PS: As one of the big names (11 letters in my last name, most of the guys you listed have like 6 on average) you know what I shoot.

Sorry, I must have been lazy. Your name is quite long though. Very interesting link, lots of good Braves in that list. I am certain the Indian is the cause of 99% of their results.

[MarkCO]

Sorry, I must have been lazy. Your name is quite long though. Very interesting link, lots of good Braves in that list. I am certain the Indian is the cause of 99% of their results.

Appologies not needed in discussions.

I thought I would try to waste another 1/2 of Miller's liquor so I can buy him a whole shot, thus the "big name" comment.

I think you are right, it is the Indian.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I spent the money on a JP for my LR308 and it's not nearly as nice as the mil-spec trigger on my 223 that I put a $9 spring kit in and tuned myself. Funny how that worked out. I chose "other" then realized I had the JP in my 308. It would be interesting to know how many "others" have done their own trigger job.

[rc2125]

Could it be that the JP traveled longer after reset because of longer overtravel on the JP? Also, who installed your JP trigger? What made you finally go with the Geissele instead of the JP? Did the Geissele just feel smoother? Thanks for confirming the Para LDA comparison.

Could have been the overtravel, it was factory installed on a dpms 3g1 rifle, but I did watch the whole installation video while checking function, and it seemed to be set-up about as good as possible according to the vid. Figured I'd try the S3G, if I didn't like it, return it and get something else, maybe a JP. S3G didn't require any fitting or tuning, or any screws, simply install and run. The geissele is really silky, roller bearing like, a different kinda smooth, wish I'd had both next to eachother to compare.

Edited March 10, 2011 by rc2125

[bagdrag]

Pretty sizable lead for lead for JP so far, but the Chip McCormick voters (TLD, lynn jones, Bear1142, outerlimits, P.E. Kelley, raz-0) are an interesting group. Any reason why you all picked the Chip over any others you may have tried?

[MarkCO]

Pretty sizable lead for lead for JP so far, but the Chip McCormick voters (TLD, lynn jones, Bear1142, outerlimits, P.E. Kelley, raz-0) are an interesting group. Any reason why you all picked the Chip over any others you may have tried?

Yeah and "someone" voted for Jard but has not yet made it to a match...now you HAVE to shoot a match my friend.

[bagdrag]

The new Giesselle(pronounced Guy-Zlee) Super 3 Gun trigger is pretty awesome and uber reliable.The NST has been trying them out for a while now. I believe they are almost available for sale.

It is a single stage with a slightly different break than most are used to in single stage triggers. Reset is very short and the break just sort of rolls like its on bearings. As you apply pressure you feel a sort of creep that is so smooth it feels like it rolls on ball bearings. Then BANG! No screws to adjust. Break is adjusted with the trigger spring. Mine is 2# on the nose. I love it. Its the best trigger I have ever shot. I literally have shot them all and still own most of those. And it has the fastest lock time of any AR trigger on the market.

Its truly gonna be a hot setup. Reset is not as short as the AR Gold or some JP's but its ten times more positive and only has just a slightly longer reset. The hammer spring is the strongest I have ever felt. the hammer will bruise your thumb if you use your thumb to break the drop.

I just read this review by Tod Litt in another thread. Looked interesting to me because I thought I remember him having extensive use of the AR Gold in competition. Sounds like he has a lot of time behind a JP also. From this and another of his posts on the topic, he was a real big fan of the Geissele Super 3-Gun's reset. He said it was Glock-like positive. I wonder if he'd care to add anything in this thread. This fascinates me because I really only have two handgun triggers I've enjoyed, the 1911 and the Glock (modified w/ Glockworx and Lightning Strikes parts). Both of them, I am very used to and have had a lot of time behind. Let me know if I'm crazy, but it sounds kind of neat for my ARs to simulate the two triggers I'm most used to in competition. A bolt gun trigger (JP?) in an AR sounds super accurate, but I don't put that much trigger time in my bolt gun. Geissele is back in the running.

[Jesse Tischauser]

JP all the way.