9mmalpha Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) congrats to Craig Buckland / and Tom Yost for making it to DM Edited March 7, 2011 by 9mmalpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Just for clarification purposes ..... Based on second hand information it appears that those promoted to DM will only be competing for Division Champion and will not be included in any other classification if they fail to win their division. Since there won't be a separate scoring classification for DM's what happens if they don't win the Division Championship? Where will they be listed in the scores? HQ says they are can't be scored with the Masters, and implies there can't be a DM classification for compettion scoring purposes and at least one supplier of scoring software has stated she will not be updating the software to include DM's, so what are MD's suppose to do if the DM doesn't win their division or there is more then one DM at a match? Edited March 13, 2011 by Bob Hostetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Price you pay or being good. ALL OR NOTHING. It seems that way when someone say "They only care about low overall score" so they won't mind getting nothing if they don't achieve that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Just for clarification purposes ..... Based on second hand information it appears that those promoted to DM will only be competing for Division Champion and will not be included in any other classification if they fail to win their division. Since there won't be a separate scoring classification for DM's what happens if they don't win the Division Championship? Where will they be listed in the scores? HQ says they are can't be scored with the Masters, and implies there can't be a DM classification for compettion scoring purposes and at least one supplier of scoring software has stated she will not be updating the software to include DM's, so what are MD's suppose to do if the DM doesn't win their division or there is more then one DM at a match? Just for clarification, Bob... I said I'm not committing to modifying my scoring software to deal with DMs. I may. I may not. But on idpaforum I added that I'm quite certain I will not have such a public version of the software released during 2011. I put a fair amount of programming time and effort into trying to support IDPA 3-gun a year or two back. But the to me impossibly unclear classification language has forced me to shelve that effort after having done a lot of internal revision. And for now, at least, that amounts to a lot of wasted hours. So I won't even *think* about DM until I see full and final rules published and clarified. Particularly in view of the language in IDPA's March 4 email to members, where they add this additional information: IDPA is currently undergoing a complete review of the classification system with special attention to the times required to make each class. With the finalization of that review we will consider a method for the achievement of Distinguished Master via the shooting of a classification match. (For any who may not have read the email, it's available online.) There's also a lot of complexity in my software in the whole classification process - the upload-to and download-from the IDPA website, promoting shooters at sanctioned matches, etc. Once I see clear final language, I'll let it percolate. I make relatively little money from IDPA software, and need to spend most of my time on the medical software consulting that actually feeds me. So it could be some months after final language is released before I even heat up my soldering iron. Thereafter, however long it takes to revise and suitably beta-test as time and my schedule permit. This is not meant as a rant at IDPA. They get flack for doing things and they get flack for not doing things. They've made (or are making) a change they obviously feel will improve the sport. I wish them and that change all success. My position on the software is based on how I choose to spend the finite hours allocated to my life. Jane Fleming Beach Bunny Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I understand completely, my comment has based on the fact that the season is starting, and matches are coming up quickly. I double checked a couple of the matches I am planning on attending and there will be DM's in attendance but based on my conversations with staff members they have no idea what to do about the new DM classification or how to score it. One suggested that if the DM doesn't win the division then they don't even appear in the results anywhere. While I can identify the logic chain that got them to that conclusion, I am not sure that was the intended result. If nothing else it will make it hard to prove to your sponsors that you even attended the match ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 just throwing this out there....but maybe IDPA could have everybody shoot the 90 round classifier as part of the first world shoot next fall, and have that count as part of the final match score. then IDPA could readjust the classifier cutoff times based off that...if what Jane says is true. we all could then see what the big dawgs are actually shooting the classifier in. granted as far as sampling goes the results will be skewed because of the money and skill/effort a person is likely to put out in attending the first ever world shoot. congrats to the guys who became the first to earn the first DM designations. as far as why those guys would continue to shoot major IDPA matches, well, that is part and parcel of becoming a sponsored shooter. they are there to advertise and be good ambassadors of whoever logo's are on their shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtis108 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What gets me is that IDPA goes out of their way not to use ipsc terminology. Can't be a Grand Master. It's understandable, though. That's part of what makes IDPA IDPA. It's part of their branding. They're 7up, the uncola. They're flame broiled. They eat more chikin. Back when I shot Bullseye matches, the classifications were the same as they are in IDPA now. Marksman through Distinguished Master. This isn't new terminology, I was a DM in bullseye years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak hill Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 FWIW - I like the idea of the new DM class as it breaks up the top competitors from the "average Joe" masters. This also gives current masters a new goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 just throwing this out there....but maybe IDPA could have everybody shoot the 90 round classifier as part of the first world shoot next fall, and have that count as part of the final match score. Not really seeing it. In every IDPA match I've ever shot that had the classifier stages as part of the match, all three classifier stages were HUGE bottlenecks. Really, it just takes way too long to run a person through a 30-round, 3-7 string stage. And that's just at a club match. Can you imagine the bottlenecks at a World Shoot with hundreds of shooters? Shudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 FWIW - I like the idea of the new DM class as it breaks up the top competitors from the "average Joe" masters. This also gives current masters a new goal. Only at 2 matches. Averge Joe is SOL at all the other majors. This is the way I understand it. Gordon Carrell didn't win DC at The FL State IDPA match but still finished 1st MA. DC was won by Shannon Smith (Who shoots as a pro at the Pro Am) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) @ Duane, the (Tenn.?) summer sizzler match back in say 2006 or 2007, maybe even 2008 had the classifier incorporated into the overall match. when the match results were posted to thAt IDPA club's weebsite, the classifier scores were posted in a black font, green font or red font depending on if the shooter was...hmmnnn...how shall I say? underclassified, overclassified, or just right.z I don't have an idea of how big of a log jam that created at the summer sizzler. I am assuming the siZler was a 2 day match. I don't know the format world shoot...two days? three days? if people have plenty of mags loaded to the correct capacity as per the string descriptions, things will go much smoother and faster. It is the new guys (green as grass) who show up with just two mags or just three (and their velcro holsters and mag pouches) who really throw a wrench in the works. no pejorative intended to the newbs. we all started somewhere. just making an observation. Edited March 16, 2011 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Gordon Carrell didn't win DC at The FL State IDPA match but still finished 1st MA. Did they give him the plaque or are you just indicating that he listed as 1st MA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 >>>>> "Average Joe Masters" <<<<< Average Joe's shouldn't be Masters. If they are Master's they should well above average ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak hill Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 >>>>> "Average Joe Masters" <<<<< Average Joe's shouldn't be Masters. If they are Master's they should well above average ... I could not agree more! But, if just go to a "sanctioned" match and come in with a lower score than 10 other expert shooters and congratulations you are now a master even if your current skill level has you posting classifier times in the middle of the expert range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 That would require....190 Expert shooters at the match? All in the same division, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clown Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Some friends at the match said Gordon did not accept anything for 1st Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Some friends at the match said Gordon did not accept anything for 1st Master. I would not think that Gordon would have accepted it. I was just curious if they tried to give it to him. The other little problem with the DM deal is that they will still be listed as MA. If a shooter is sponsored or looking for sponsors or trying to explain to anyone it is a confusing explanation why they are listed as 2nd but really 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Some friends at the match said Gordon did not accept anything for 1st Master. The other little problem with the DM deal is that they will still be listed as MA. Maybe. But I've heard some matches plan to list them as Unclassified, so it doesn't affect the Master ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The other little problem with the DM deal is that they will still be listed as MA. Maybe. But I've heard some matches plan to list them as Unclassified, so it doesn't affect the Master ranking. Yeah, I mentioned that on the IDPA forum. That might be the easiest way to do it at the moment. Of course if I was a DM I might think differently at being listed Unc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If they leave them (the DM's) in the Master classification for scoring purposes then the whole point is worthless ....... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filishooter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Some friends at the match said Gordon did not accept anything for 1st Master. The other little problem with the DM deal is that they will still be listed as MA. If a shooter is sponsored or looking for sponsors or trying to explain to anyone it is a confusing explanation why they are listed as 2nd but really 1st. Good point. I came in 5th (4th adjusted) out of 15 SSP Masters. As others have said, Shannon won DC and Gordon was listed as 1st Master in the results. Deon Martin is listed as 2nd. After the awards were given out, the MD director simply said "everyone moves up up one placing" because Gordon was DM. IMHO, Deon didn't get the recognition he deserved for placing 1st SSP MA class at the awards, I think everyone was a bit confused and I wasn't sure what place I really came in. I do know I came home with a 5th place award and not a 4th place award. Shouldn't they have shifted the awards around after the adjustment? I'm thinking with more time this will get worked out. Edited March 16, 2011 by Filishooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Gordon is not a SSP MA he is a SSP DM (different classification)so he should not be included in any awards or listing for SSP MA's. You should have received a 4th place award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filishooter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Gordon is not a SSP MA he is a SSP DM (different classification)so he should not be included in any awards or listing for SSP MA's. You should have received a 4th place award. Exactly...not only that, the guy who placed behind me didn't get recognized at all when he should have been presented 5th place at the awards. I'm not suggesting that its the MD and crews fault, they did an outstanding job putting on the match and made the best of the situation that the new DM class created. Edited March 16, 2011 by Filishooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 what stiucks in my craw is the the so called "masters" who are using that title as leverage to teach classes to unsuspecting noobs. there is also a guy paired up with some X-Delta or X-SEAL guy on a gun TV show. The sidekick claims to be an IDPA "master". I've looked through four or five years of major match results at the IDPA.com website (thank you .pdf search function), and I still cannot find either "master's" names. huh? I wish there was some sort of requirement to shoot major matches for those kinda guys advertising "master" after their name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I SO'd that particular Summer Sizzler and have just about every one after that. The classifer did not cause a HUGE jam but did slow things up and made for a horrible match. No one wants to pay MAJOR match money to do something they can do locally. It was a good idea, but once we did it, we won't do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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