Insurance on your gun

[BismarckC]

I have a question that I have not found via the search engine. My insurance agent is switching my policy to a new company and as a result they need back-up documentation on the value of my limited gun (Para16/40 with Dawson based hi-caps). I am copying pages from Brownell's, internet sites and the classified guns to get a value on the parts but that does not include a gunsmith constructing the gun. Has anyone had to put together a valuation for an insurance company? How did you do it?

Thanks

[h4444]

Will they accept an appraised value from your smith?

I checked with my company once, and they wanted to know replacement value.

[lynn jones]

hopefully you have a replacement cost rider on your homeowners policy. this protects your home and your valueables.

see, insurance agents do have a purpose.

lynn

[BismarckC]

Lynn:

The reason I am providing the value is for my rider on my policy.

H444:

I can ask some local smiths for their hourly rate. I will also see if a letter from my smith will suffice. I think valuing pre-ban hi-cap mags is the hardest part.

[Flexmoney]

There are rates for smithing in the middle of the Brownell's catalog, I think.

And, various smiths post rates on their websites. (I think cylinder & slide posts rates, for instance.)

[rhino]

I think a written appraisal from a legit gunsmith/dealer is a good idea.

Another thing to consider is getting your firearms insurance through the NRA. In addition to the automatice $1000 of coverage you have for being a member, you can also get more coverage (both scheduled and unscheduled) for a lot less than most riders on homeowners or standalone policies. You should compare based on the price per $100 of coverage and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

In addition, you do not have to supply serial numbers or photos ahead of time (although I suspect they may want that info if you file a claim, so it's good to have it in your possession, not the insurance company's). So you don't have to worry about who has access to information about your personal belongings beyond the insured value.

Your collection and individual guns (if more than $1000 per gun) are insured for the value you specify. So if you paid $500 for a gun, but you know it would cost $2500 to duplicate it, you can insure it for the real value of replacement if you so choose.

Also, note that there is no deductible. If you have other coverage, your NRA-endorsed insurance will actually pay the deductible and balance of that your other coverage failed to pay.

[gm iprod]

I have done valuations for travel and replacement insurance on firearms (here in New Zealand), we place the value on something semi or full custom (eg Les Baer or similar raceguns) as what it would cost to build again exactly as is, if fairly new, or what a similar used one would cost to purchase, IF AVAILABLE. Or if the firearm is a std off the shelf item (eg Remington 700BDL) we give new and likely second hand value based on current condition.

List the major accessories (such as scope, spare mags etc) as seperate items. Reloading equipment can get up there in value as well, so be sure that is included in some way.

Get the nearest equivalent out of a reputable dealer or builder and present that, or best of all, the reciepts from the build up.

The more often you keep up with the latest values the less you with be stiffed when you do have a loss. I add anything over $500US and less than $2500US to my household policy as a seperate item, I get another local dealer to confirm my valuations. I make sure my traditional household policy actually covers the value of my firearms PLUS the usual stuff. I have an seperate policy for my really expensiveguns and individually itemise them. This keeps the cost to me down and spreads the load across two companies, it also keeps the lady of the house slightly unawares of the actual amount of money that I have spent on my little babies.

[BismarckC]

Thanks for the advice. I will talk with my agent and make sure I am covered.

[Rob Boudrie]

If you ever have the misfortune of filing a loss claim on firearms, remember that the scope is a separate item which is not a firearm nor part of a firearm. I know of one case where the insured used this logic to have his red dots covered outside the fixed $$ limit in firearms in his policy.

[BigDave]

DISCLAIMER: I am not a liscensed insurance agent in any state, check with your agent for clarification with your specific carrier.

I believe the most practical way to insure firearms, and their acessories is through a Personal Articles Policy. Simply put, it is a policy only for the items you tell them to insure (schedule) and for the ammount you tell them to insure it for (stated value). All I have to provide is a description, serial number and value. I was not asked to provide any valuation on any one specific item. What is good about a PAP policy is that it is all-peril (read: insured against anything that happens, except the exclusions like wear, tear, war, neglect, etc.). I travel a lot and choose to insure by guns this way (b/c they're typically with me). This insurance, just on my guns, costs well under $100/yr.

Standard Homeowners Policy's anymore nearly always include coverage for your personal property (read: non building property) at Replacement Cost (RC). That is unless you tell them specifically to insured for Actual Cash Value (replacement cost less depreciation). As well, most HO policies have a loss by theft to firearms limit of $2500, which can also be increased to $5,000 by option. This is for theft only. I don't know of any HO policy where you are required to give a list of guns and their details.

For example: your house suffers a total fire loss including your personal property; your firearms are covered up the the Personal Property (Coverage B ) limit of liability, along with your clothes, shoes, furniture, cd's, etc. One thing to keep in mind about HO policies regarding personal property is that they are typically named peril (read: the loss must be proximately caused by one of the perils named in the policy for Personal Property). The perils include: fire/lightning, wind/hail, explosion, riot, aircraft, vehicles, smoke, vandalism, theft, falling objects, weight of ice/snow, sudden rupture of plumbing devices, freezing, power surge, breakage of glass. If the damage to your personal belongs wasn't caused by one of those, it likely is not covered.

[rhino]

The NRA insurance is of the type BigDave recommends as well.

[BigDave]

The Personal Articles Policy, or PAP, is very similar to the Inland-Marine Policy commonly used for businesses. The Inland-Marine is typically used to insure mobile equipment and tools that don't stay at a "described location" very often, rather a worksite.

[xcount]

Gotta tell this story. Some may find it humorous.

I used to own two houses, mine and the father-in-law's. Had insurance on them through different carriers (same agent). When I wanted to add a rider for the guns the agent tacked it onto the policy for the father-in-law's house as the rate was much better.

Well, father-in-law passed away and we sold the house. I called the agent and asked what to do now. "Let me get back to you", he said.

The next day he called and said he had noticed the school bus shed at the end of my driveway. Did I have any fire insurance on it?

"Whaddya, nuts?", I asked, "Why would I do that?"

He said he could write a fire insurance policy giving me $500 coverage on the school bus shed with the company I used to have the other house insured by.

Then he could add the gun rider to that policy and the total cost would be about $85 a year as opposed the the $300 or so it would cost for a gun rider with the company which insures my home.

So I now tell people I keep my guns in a school bus shed.