3-gun?

[Iggy42]

Now maybe I am missing something, but why is everyone about 9mm? I know in production its all scored minor, but why not go .40 and score major in Limited, Limited 10, or 3-gun Tact? Naturally the more trigger time the better so are people just not going major for a reason I am not aware of? I will admit I havn't gotten a handle on how the scoring is figured, but it just seems to me that the extra points from major is just good for all. After all from what I understand the current flavor of the month for Limited is an STI Edge in .40 S&W

I guess what I am truly wondering is whether or not its worth it to go for the major power factor when it is available (Limited, Limited 10 and Tactical).

On a complete side note does anyone know of a free online gun blue book?

[mpeltier]

I can't speek for any but myself, but I prefer 9mm for several reasons (And I was a died in the wool Major fanboy for a long time). I do not play this game for the pistol only matches (I find them boring to a degree), I am in it for the challenge of 3-gun. Most matches I attend, the 9mm is not really scored differantly or not so much as i feel dissadvantaged. All scoring methods I am aware of are only a dissadvantage if you make sloppy shots. So i focus on accuracy, and don't make too many sloppy shots. When I do shoot USPSA pistol matches I shoot Limited Minor and still do pretty well. My preferance for shooting a 9mm are:

Shootability/fit

Mag capacity

Economic ammo (9mm is a bit cheaper)

My preferance for gun that shoots 9mm also depends on the frame size of the gun. The guns based on a large frame and addapted to 9mm, are not my preferance. I will only shoot a 9mm pistol designed around the 9mm as they fit my hand better (and no I do not have small hands), thus they shoot better for me.

Now, the M&P Pro is worth another look. See if you can find one that has had the trigger worked. It can very easily be made to be very fine indeed. If an XD, PRO, or Glock has a had a good trigger, you would be hard pressed to tell the differance on the range, trying them all for the best shootability/fit to your hand is most important. Go with whatever points and shoots the best for you.

[kellyn]

9mm is so popular because outlaw 3 gun is much more popular than USPSA multigun. So major/minor does not even exist at these matches. In every outlaw 3 gun match that I am aware of 9mm scores the same as .40 so with a 9mm you get the following advantages:

Less recoil

Reduced cost

Greater capacity

That being said a good .40 hi cap is very competitive in outlaw 3 gun. So if you were going to shoot a lot of USPSA Limited pistol, I would roll with a .40 but if you were going to focus on outlaw 3 gun, a 9mm is better.

[Sterling White]

If your really thinking hard about shooting limited in USPSA and giving 3G a good hard effort then consider paying a little extra and getting a STI 9mm/40 6" gun from a reputable smith (such as Barsto Precision). You will pay more in the beginning for a combo gun (one that has inter-changable barrels). And yes it will work...they have figured out how to extract both 9mm and 40 without changing the breech face. I didn't bring this up before because the thread started out by saying that your working on a tight budget!

[Chills1994]

For whatever it is worth to ya, I shoot Limited Minor also with a so called production division Beretta, with 20 round mags (9mm). I have also shot Open with it too, also at minor power factor. The whole major vs. minor thing has been hashed out a bunch of times on this forum before, but for me, at least, it is not the C and D hits that really kill me.

It's the Mikes and the Hit on the No-shoots.

I also have a Beretta 96 (the .40 cal version of the 92) but I can only stuff 15 or 16 rounds in the 20, 9mm rounds mags. .40 at major power factor also gives me slide bite with the 96.

Just out of curiosity I might try swapping barrels and slides around, just to see if a .40 breech face will hold a 9mm round in a 9mm barrel.

I swap complete top ends and frames around all the time on the Berettas, by the way. And the mags swap and run just fine too.

[Iggy42]

If your really thinking hard about shooting limited in USPSA and giving 3G a good hard effort then consider paying a little extra and getting a STI 9mm/40 6" gun from a reputable smith (such as Barsto Precision). You will pay more in the beginning for a combo gun (one that has inter-changable barrels). And yes it will work...they have figured out how to extract both 9mm and 40 without changing the breech face. I didn't bring this up before because the thread started out by saying that your working on a tight budget!

Yeah STI's are out of my budget, but 500-600 for a XD(m), Glock, M&P I can swing. Plus like I said I will probably be building this gun over time as opposed to plunking down 1500 for a "finished" limited gun. I am hoping to have one or two things done (thinking a trigger job and maybe some fiber optic sights). Lots of other things I would like, but I figure between birthdays, Christmas, and anniversary's I can add on bits as I go (magwell, 140mm mags etc.) I may change my mind as far as what to do when as I may fine I like the stock trigger on whatever I go with, but I can cross that bridge when I get there.

[jlaw973]

Buy a M&P 9, send it to Burwell for trigger and stipple, put good sights on it and base pads and shoot away.

[bunsen27]

There is a lot of good advice here and sorting through all of it is going to be a challenge. I started USPSA and 3gun this year as well. Fortunately I already had a Rem 1100 and Colt AR15 to use so I only had to decide on a pistol. Although the 1911 is an excellent platform it does have some minor limitations in the 3gun game as others have mentioned (mag capacity, larger recoil impulse) however that doesn't mean you need to buy a new pistol just to shoot 3gun. If you are comfortable with these minor limitations shoot the gun you already own in SS and 3gun. This early in it's more the person pulling the trigger than the pistol so get as much trigger time with one pistol as you can. If you do decide to go the new pistol route Glock, M&P, and XDM's in 9mm are all excellent choices for both 3gun and USPSA Production division. They will also work for Limited Minor as well by adding mag extensions and a magwell, which coincidentally is also an excellent way to set up these pistols for 3gun to take full advantage of their double stack capacity. I own both the M&P and XDM platforms and would recommend either one. My current preference is the M&P mainly because it has the better trigger(Apex Parts). I just haven't gotten around to sending off the XDM for trigger work (Canyon Creek) although it is my intention to set up (magwell and mag extensions)and shoot the XDM primarily for 3gun next year. Good luck and don't get too overwhelmed by the information and equipment overload that is 3gun.

[Iggy42]

There is a lot of good advice here and sorting through all of it is going to be a challenge. I started USPSA and 3gun this year as well. Fortunately I already had a Rem 1100 and Colt AR15 to use so I only had to decide on a pistol. Although the 1911 is an excellent platform it does have some minor limitations in the 3gun game as others have mentioned (mag capacity, larger recoil impulse) however that doesn't mean you need to buy a new pistol just to shoot 3gun. If you are comfortable with these minor limitations shoot the gun you already own in SS and 3gun. This early in it's more the person pulling the trigger than the pistol so get as much trigger time with one pistol as you can. If you do decide to go the new pistol route Glock, M&P, and XDM's in 9mm are all excellent choices for both 3gun and USPSA Production division. They will also work for Limited Minor as well by adding mag extensions and a magwell, which coincidentally is also an excellent way to set up these pistols for 3gun to take full advantage of their double stack capacity. I own both the M&P and XDM platforms and would recommend either one. My current preference is the M&P mainly because it has the better trigger(Apex Parts). I just haven't gotten around to sending off the XDM for trigger work (Canyon Creek) although it is my intention to set up (magwell and mag extensions)and shoot the XDM primarily for 3gun next year. Good luck and don't get too overwhelmed by the information and equipment overload that is 3gun.

I am very strongly leaning the new pistol route, but what my biggest struggle is that I keep seeing 9mm, but since most of my shooting will be USPSA wouldn't .40 be better for the major scoring?

I have to admit I am a bit lost, but hopefully as I look at expanding into 3-gun it will make more sense.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Iggy42

[Corey]

if you are going to shoot more USPSA than anything else, put that in the fore ground. If you are going to shoot a division that allows major scoring, why not take advantage of it.

[Sterling White]

To understand how USPSA scoring works is to understand how the hit factor is determined, ie., major v. minor power factor.

At most big and small 3 gun matches scoring works on a time plus (or some variation), ie., 1-A hit or 2-hits anywhere on target equals target neutralized and no seconds added to your time.

Many (not all) 3-gunners use 9 because there are no power factor requirements, the recoil is much less, and usually the 9mm STI can hold 24 or 25 rounds v. the 40 STI which can hold 21-22 rds.

[mpeltier]

I am very strongly leaning the new pistol route, but what my biggest struggle is that I keep seeing 9mm, but since most of my shooting will be USPSA wouldn't .40 be better for the major scoring?

Not neccessarily. It depends on the devision you enter in a USPSA match. That is why I recomended you shoot Production, and use a 9mm. There is no penalty, per-say, for using 9mm because all production division shooters score the same (Minor) even if you shot a .40. You just need to down load to 10rds in the mags. The production equipment (Mag pouches,holster) are more in line with what 3-gunners use as well, the limited minimalist race holsters are not the ideal holster for 3-gun. Some guys do use them, but a secure kydex holster, like a production set up is far more popular, and practical.

If you choose to shoot in Limited, you would then shoot minor against many that are shooting major, but could fully load your mags, and make external mods like magwell etc. You would possibly be at a slight dissadvantage there concerning minor/major scoring. I would not loose any sleep over it though, as I do not feel it is that big of a deal.

Go 9mm, shoot in USPSA Production. Then you would need to focus only on rifle and shotgun when you want to dive into 3-gun.

Edited September 30, 2010 by mpeltier

[Iggy42]

While I have a long way to go in just getting the equipment for 3-gun what I am hoping to find is a mentor (hopefully in my area) for 3-gun. This is a direction I really want to go and while I know I need (at least should get) a different handgun, rifle, and a shotgun.

I guess what I am trying to say is, does anyone want to take a new shooter under their wing and assist them in anyway (be it training/practice, loaner equipment, whatever) possible. Ever since I saw my first 3-gun match on Shooting USA its a path I truly want to walk and if there is some local to me here in Harpers Ferry WV so that as I move forward I can do so with as few finicial mistakes as possible. Not to mention my hope is to find more multigun matches in my area since the only one I know of is the monthly (well looking like it will be a monthly) muligun side match to the USPSA matches at Summit Point.

[Sterling White]

Take a trip down to Leesburg and visit with Jason at Loudon Guns. Call ahead and see when he has some free time to visit because the store can get extremely busy in the afternoons.

[Iggy42]

Take a trip down to Leesburg and visit with Jason at Loudon Guns. Call ahead and see when he has some free time to visit because the store can get extremely busy in the afternoons.

Thanks for the tip