What is a comfortable margin for making minor?

[Flexmoney]

... doing the math as if my bullet weight is one grain less than it is.

I do that too.

[DWFAN]

DWFAN,

I'm running a 6" barreled 686 for what it's worth. Your velocity will be less in 686 SSR, but I have no 4" barrel data. I've been using this for the last year. If you crimp it tigt enough it averages around 900 fps with about 60 fps range.

158 grn LRN moly coat (Black bullets Int)

Remington or Federal brass

Federal primers

4.8 grn Unique

OAL 1.45

Taper crimp

I have also been working on a load with same specs, but wih Solo 1000, looks promising, but not a lot of data yet. I worked it up to 4.2 grn Solo 1000. Only 5 rounds 861, 845, 844, 874 and 856 fps. Lots of published data for Unique, but not for Solo 1000.

Westczek

Thanks. I knew it would be different, but thats another one to look at. Ive got about 6lbs of Solo, so that one is on the list to try along with some clays.

[RePete]

If the required PF is 125 (125000) then you need to look at 131 (131000) as your minimum.

For 165 (165000) then 171 (171000) and for 170 (170000) then 176 (176000).

After you have attained your PF, chrono them at different temperatures so you don't go to an expensive and important match only to shoot for fun.

Don't shoot for the minimum PF as it will come back to bite you in the a$$.

[G-ManBart]

If the required PF is 125 (125000) then you need to look at 131 (131000) as your minimum.

That's too low. There's no advantage to shooting 131PF over 135PF, and it's a much greater chance of going sub-minor, which means shooting only for fun. It's not too hard to have a load that's 6PF higher than the minimum to come up short.

I'd even say the 171PF is too low, but at least that would still let you shoot for score if things go wrong, albeit Minor. R,

[benos]

When I was finalizing a load for a match I cared about (Nats or Area Match), I'd chrono the loads, for a minimum, over a period of three days, shootting three, fifteen shot strings each day. On the different days, I'd also shoot at different times. One day in the AM, one day around noon, and one day in the afternoon. My PF would be the average for all of that. And my target was 5 over. So if the PF was 170,000, my goal was 175,000.

But if your chrono procedure isn't that rigorous, I'd shoot for 8 - 10 over.

be

[RePete]

If the required PF is 125 (125000) then you need to look at 131 (131000) as your minimum.

That's too low. There's no advantage to shooting 131PF over 135PF, and it's a much greater chance of going sub-minor, which means shooting only for fun. It's not too hard to have a load that's 6PF higher than the minimum to come up short.

I'd even say the 171PF is too low, but at least that would still let you shoot for score if things go wrong, albeit Minor. R,

Bart:

I did say minimum.

I'm running 137 for my minor load.

[G-ManBart]

If the required PF is 125 (125000) then you need to look at 131 (131000) as your minimum.

That's too low. There's no advantage to shooting 131PF over 135PF, and it's a much greater chance of going sub-minor, which means shooting only for fun. It's not too hard to have a load that's 6PF higher than the minimum to come up short.

I'd even say the 171PF is too low, but at least that would still let you shoot for score if things go wrong, albeit Minor. R,

Bart:

I did say minimum.

I'm running 137 for my minor load.

So 137 is your personal standard, but for others 131 is okay? Heck, I should want lots of folks to go sub-minor, or not make Major...less competition, it's Darwin at work!

The point is still the same, I have seen that +6PF isn't always enough. I had one come up over 7PF short of the norm, but I'd padded it by loading +8-9PF, so I still squeaked by. That was a load, and batch of components that had been tested many times (like 20 different days and no less than four different chronographs)...got me why, but it happened. R,

[RePete]

If the required PF is 125 (125000) then you need to look at 131 (131000) as your minimum.

That's too low. There's no advantage to shooting 131PF over 135PF, and it's a much greater chance of going sub-minor, which means shooting only for fun. It's not too hard to have a load that's 6PF higher than the minimum to come up short.

I'd even say the 171PF is too low, but at least that would still let you shoot for score if things go wrong, albeit Minor. R,

Bart:

I did say minimum.

I'm running 137 for my minor load.

So 137 is your personal standard, but for others 131 is okay? Heck, I should want lots of folks to go sub-minor, or not make Major...less competition, it's Darwin at work!

The point is still the same, I have seen that +6PF isn't always enough. I had one come up over 7PF short of the norm, but I'd padded it by loading +8-9PF, so I still squeaked by. That was a load, and batch of components that had been tested many times (like 20 different days and no less than four different chronographs)...got me why, but it happened. R,

Not at all, it's just that I never bothered to reduce it like I should do.

I say 131 because having been on the chrono at matches, it's been the PF that hasn't got the 125'ish'ers into trouble.

[G-ManBart]

So 137 is your personal standard, but for others 131 is okay? Heck, I should want lots of folks to go sub-minor, or not make Major...less competition, it's Darwin at work!

The point is still the same, I have seen that +6PF isn't always enough. I had one come up over 7PF short of the norm, but I'd padded it by loading +8-9PF, so I still squeaked by. That was a load, and batch of components that had been tested many times (like 20 different days and no less than four different chronographs)...got me why, but it happened. R,

Not at all, it's just that I never bothered to reduce it like I should do.

I say 131 because having been on the chrono at matches, it's been the PF that hasn't got the 125'ish'ers into trouble.

How do you know what those folks were loading to at home?

Sure, some or even most of the time, 131 will be fine, but not always, and sub-minor is shooting for fun....which makes 131 kind of silly when 135 or so feels identical and pretty much eliminates any chance of going sub-minor.

Interesting that you say you should reduce from 137PF. There seem to be quite a few GM Production shooters suggesting 135PF+...that sort of seems odd, in itself. My Production load was 135-138PF the last ten times I chrono'd it, and it's softer than the 132-133PF load I compared it against (Atlanta Arms). Higher PF, just as accurate and softer

[98sr20ve]

I don't know why you would need 135 PF. I load to 130PF or a little better. I load it to 130 PF in the worst case situation. So with my Solo 1000 Load the 100F load might be a little hotter when it's 40F outside. No need to load a 130PF @ 100F load when it' never above 45F outside. So my loading changes for winter and summer time. Using this method none of my 10 rd strings have ever been below 125PF on average and none of my single shots are actually below the floor of 125PF.

[G-ManBart]

I don't know why you would need 135 PF. I load to 130PF or a little better. I load it to 130 PF in the worst case situation. So with my Solo 1000 Load the 100F load might be a little hotter when it's 40F outside. No need to load a 130PF @ 100F load when it' never above 45F outside. So my loading changes for winter and summer time. Using this method none of my 10 rd strings have ever been below 125PF on average and none of my single shots are actually below the floor of 125PF.

Why? Because there's variation from one chronograph to the next, conditions and lighting change results, and if you go sub-minor, you're no longer shooting for score. I've explained this one many, many times, but it's pretty clear cut. I went to the 2008 Nationals with a batch of ammo that I loaded up for two other majors, plus that Nationals. At the two majors it went what I saw at home regularly...172 to 174PF (Major load). At the Nationals, it went 166.1PF. I brought some of that batch home, and it went 172-174 again regularly. When I loaded ammo for the 2009 Nationals, I hadn't made a single change to anything on the press....zip, nadda, nothing. I loaded up a batch of ammo with all the same components as I used for the 2008 Nationals (cases may have been a different lot, but home chrono work was the same)...yes, I buy in significant bulk. That batch went 172-174PF on half a dozen days before I left for Nationals. It was 172PF in Vegas. Same load, same components, same gun, 166.1PF one time, 172PF another time. At least with Major, you still get to shoot for score if you don't make it. I just checked the earlier posts and Flex said something similar...+7PF over the floor as an absolute minimum. Further, I'll bet anybody a paycheck that they can't tell which is a 130PF load when compared with a 135PF load....not gonna happen because the round-to-round variation in either string is going to overlap significantly between the two. So, it's a no-brainer to make sure you absolutely will make PF.

Your Solo 1K load is going to lose velocity if you travel, and most places are hotter than CO....which means you might need that load to be at 140PF at home if you're going somewhere really warm....say like Vegas in Oct!

10 round strings don't show nearly as much as what I've found with 20rd strings....just a side note. I'd do longer strings, but 20 is easy and doesn't take a pile of mags to get through. R,

[RePete]

So 137 is your personal standard, but for others 131 is okay? Heck, I should want lots of folks to go sub-minor, or not make Major...less competition, it's Darwin at work!

The point is still the same, I have seen that +6PF isn't always enough. I had one come up over 7PF short of the norm, but I'd padded it by loading +8-9PF, so I still squeaked by. That was a load, and batch of components that had been tested many times (like 20 different days and no less than four different chronographs)...got me why, but it happened. R,

Not at all, it's just that I never bothered to reduce it like I should do.

I say 131 because having been on the chrono at matches, it's been the PF that hasn't got the 125'ish'ers into trouble.

How do you know what those folks were loading to at home?

Sure, some or even most of the time, 131 will be fine, but not always, and sub-minor is shooting for fun....which makes 131 kind of silly when 135 or so feels identical and pretty much eliminates any chance of going sub-minor.

Interesting that you say you should reduce from 137PF. There seem to be quite a few GM Production shooters suggesting 135PF+...that sort of seems odd, in itself. My Production load was 135-138PF the last ten times I chrono'd it, and it's softer than the 132-133PF load I compared it against (Atlanta Arms). Higher PF, just as accurate and softer

Because they tell me.

I will go down to 131-132PF. As for other Production shooters, they can do what they want and I'll do mine.

[Jeff Matzka]

You know, no mater how high a power factor, I can't get the ammo to cycle my wheel gun

LMAO!!! Now THAT'S funny!

[westczek]

Jeff,

Glad you appreciated the revolver humor.

Westczek