Small rifle primers in 40 cal. open

[LIKE2SHOOT]

I am learning about my 40 cal. STI open gun. I started with 180 gr. and Universal, know loading 135 gr. and Longshot.Longshot at 8.5 gr. is good, so I thought 9gr. might work better. But it seems to be snappier,but does not seem to work the comp any better. I have hear the 38super guys use small rifle primers. Does that help work the comp?

[GrumpyOne]

A small rifle primer isn't going to help the comp. We use SRP's to help with pressure. In a 38S/SC/9mm mj, the pressures are quite high, and using just a regular SPP, you will more than likely have cratering, primer flow, pierced primers, etc. All and all, not good conditions in any gun. to work the comp better, you need to go to slower powders, and higher charges, producing more gas, thereby working the comp better.

Here is an excerpt from Jeff Maass's IPSC loads page concerning 40 and 135 grain projectiles: The one in bold should produce a truckload of gas, but start way down and work up to it.

WHO BULLET POWDER OAL VEL PF NOTE(S)

Federal 135gr Hydra-Shok FACTORY ? 1172.2 157.6 (41)

Hodgdon 135gr JHP 7.5gr Universal ? 1324 178.8 (3) Max Load, 4” bbl.

Alliant 135gr Nosler JHP 9.3gr Pwr Pistol 1.090” 1340 180.9 (9) Max Load, 4” bbl

Sven Westerlund 135gr Nosler JHP 9.5gr VV-3N37 1.180” 1350 182.3 (13) 6” ported bbl - HOT!

“Beavis” 135gr JHP 12.0gr Blue Dot 1.125” 1325 178 (18)

Steve Mango 135gr Berry’s Plated 8.0gr VV-N350 1.100” 1274 172.0 (42) Open class Nowlin 3-port Bbl

Steve Mango 135gr Berry’s Plated 8.9gr VV-N350 1.100” 1350 182.3 (42) Open class Nowlin 3-port Bbl

Here is the website itself:

http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm

Edited September 4, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[G-ManBart]

I am learning about my 40 cal. STI open gun. I started with 180 gr. and Universal, know loading 135 gr. and Longshot.Longshot at 8.5 gr. is good, so I thought 9gr. might work better. But it seems to be snappier,but does not seem to work the comp any better. I have hear the 38super guys use small rifle primers. Does that help work the comp?

A small rifle primer will likely give you a very slight increase in velocity (15fps is the average I've seen), but it's not really going to change how the comp runs.

A lighter bullet, with a large charge of slower powder is the way to go to get the comp working better. R,

[duct tape]

Jumping on this older thread rather than starting my own.

I'm getting a new .40 ltd gun (thx Cha-Lee) and am looking into some loads. I've been loading mostly .38 sc up to now, in addition to lots of rifle and shotgun loads, and currently own a good sized pile of Win small Rifle primers.

I have some Titegroup and N320 (and 7625 for .38 sc) on hand, most of the loads I've seen on several searched threads either list no primer or are for win small Pistol primers.

Jeff Maass doesn't list any primers for his .40 loads on his web site, and I'm assuming most are small pistol, but he does mention this:

Primers

Although Small Pistol Primers generally work fine in .40S&W, several contributors suggested that using Small Rifle Primers, as is typically done for other high-pressure IPSC loads (38 Super, 9x21, 9x23, etc.) offers some additional margin of safety. Also, if you shoot one of these other calibers in Open Category, you can stock just one type of primer, and have less risk of loading a Small Pistol Primer in your 38 Super loads. Remember to work up the load with these primers, just as with any other component you change!

Would appreciate your thoughts about some good, and safe loads for a Cameron's .40 STI with a 6" Schuemann bushing barrel with some specific primers. I'd rather use WSR since I have them and it lets me use the same primer for both Open and Limited loads.

[duct tape]

Forgot one thing - will probably use MG bullets since I'm happy with them so far, either JHP or CMJ 180.

[WDB]

I tried that blue dot load. Had unburnt powder all over the damn place!!!

[duct tape]

I don't believe I mentioned blue dot anywhere???

I found this thread after posting, which seems to answer primer questions, WSR and WSP are interchangeable for the most part: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104555

So looking at around 4.6 or 4.7 gr, maybe starting a little less, of N 320 with 180 JHP at 1.200".

Or 4.7 0 5.0 gr Titegroup

Critiques?

Edited December 16, 2010 by duct tape

[wide45]

Small rifle primers have sometimes been blamed for breachface erosion in .40

If you choose to use them, check the area around the firing pin hole often until you establish that it is not a problem with your combination.

[G-ManBart]

I don't believe I mentioned blue dot anywhere???

I found this thread after posting, which seems to answer primer questions, WSR and WSP are interchangeable for the most part: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104555

So looking at around 4.6 or 4.7 gr, maybe starting a little less, of N 320 with 180 JHP at 1.200".

Or 4.7 0 5.0 gr Titegroup

Critiques?

You need less TG to make the same PF as with N320.

I make major easily at 5.0gr of N320 in a Win case, with Zero 180gr JHPs or MG 180gr FMJs at 1.200" and WSR, WSP, FSR or FSP primers....it varies from 172-173PF in the latest runs I did through my Trojan with a Schuemann AET barrel.

[PINMAN44]

Likes2shoot

Seems like you are using my old load with Longshot of 8.5

9.0 grains worked great in gun as well, but I stayed with 8.5-8.6 because it worked great and it was at 175PF. 9.0 grains gave me way over 180PF. Still worked excellent in my setup but was unnecessary.

I use 8.5 in conjunction with a 10lb spring. My slide is super light. I used a few other powders back in the day that were excellent as well. If you need some more help feel free to drop me a line. The biggest bullet that both I and flyin40 will ever use in a 40 open gun is a 165. We easily make major with it and it shoots excellent as well.

[Harmon]

you dont need rifle primers

[G-ManBart]

you dont need rifle primers

He already has a "good size pile" of SR primers.

[duct tape]

you dont need rifle primers

He already has a "good size pile" of SR primers.

Exactly, thank you. I'm trying to keep it simple. If WSR primers work for both my .38sc and .40 loads, I'm happy. Next to get weeded out are all of the jars and jugs of "rifle" powder I never seem to use.

[duct tape]

I don't believe I mentioned blue dot anywhere???

I found this thread after posting, which seems to answer primer questions, WSR and WSP are interchangeable for the most part: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104555

So looking at around 4.6 or 4.7 gr, maybe starting a little less, of N 320 with 180 JHP at 1.200".

Or 4.7 0 5.0 gr Titegroup

Critiques?

You need less TG to make the same PF as with N320.

I make major easily at 5.0gr of N320 in a Win case, with Zero 180gr JHPs or MG 180gr FMJs at 1.200" and WSR, WSP, FSR or FSP primers....it varies from 172-173PF in the latest runs I did through my Trojan with a Schuemann AET barrel.

Thanks for your reply, reviewing your posts it looks like you have given lots of good advice in the past.

Two questions - you would have no problem using WSR with such a load as my post and work up if necessary? Mixed brass ok? I have both Win and Federal. Thx.