10mm suggestions

[thirtycal]

I recently bought a standard witness 10mm full size. I plan on using this as my duty weapon with my local sheriffs dept. First the gun has to prove itself. I have already swapped a 20# recoil spring, extra power extractor spring and extra power firing pin spring. I would like to smooth up the trigger pull but do not want to really lighten it any more. I think just polishing the interfaces of all the trigger parts will take care of that. What I would like to know is what can I do to insure reliability.

I am having a problem with the magazines at the moment though. All three are original factory tan mags and they have been cleaned and lubed with a very light coat of gun oil, but the followers are all sticking. This is causing rounds to nose dive into the base of the feed ramp. Any suggestions as to what I could be missing would be greatly appreciated.

[sinnsyk]

The OAL of your 10mm loads will be a big factor. You want to get 10mm rounds as close to 1.200" as possible. I know lot of the 10mm factory loads go up to 1.265" which when you stack them and measure them diagonally will touch front to back in the magazine. You can run your ammo through a towel lightly soaked with car polish. This will make them more slippery and reduce some of the friction. Also, Wolff extra power mag springs help.

This is a common problem among Elite 10mm owners. If you reload, make them 1.200" and find a bullet shape that cones more which will reduce the chance of front to back interference inside the mag body.

You can call me at 720 352 1080 for further assistance. Henning

[dbman]

Thirtycal, let me say this before anything else: I am not a lawyer (and I hate acronyms ). I also do not want to disparage any advice from Mr. Henning, as I am sure the suggestions he poses will go a long way toward fixing your issues, but you being a law enforcement officer especially have to consider the legal aspects of self modifications to your duty weapon and/or carry ammunition. I was told several times by both instructors and experienced officers to never, ever use hand-loads for my defensive carry ammo, because the D.A. or opposition lawyer could rip you apart on the stand if on trial regarding an incident. This warning applies to self-modification or self-repair of your duty/carry firearms as well (e.g. "Officer Thirtycal, are you a gunsmith?"). The general theme of such hypothetical questioning would be to make you out to be a vigilante who specifically went out looking for trouble with specialized self-crafted equipment or ammunition that wasn't perhaps "factory stock" or "department issue".

This might apply less to a sworn officer, but still I would check with the department for policy on allowed carry ammo and duty weapon modifications before doing anything yourself. Using a reputable gunsmith and keeping records and receipts for any work done would definitely be the order of the day. Of course if you are an accredited gunsmith, that's different - you already are in paperwork up to your ears .

It is my sincere hope you never have to draw and fire in self defense. That wish extends to everyone, except the bad guys of course. But if you do, preparation will go a long way to clearing your name and getting you back to duty quickly.

OK, my 2 cents are spent.

(Edited to clarify defensive carry ammo)

Edited September 8, 2010 by dbman

[davidwiz]

The general theme of such hypothetical questioning would be to make you out to be a vigilante who specifically went out looking for trouble with specialized self-crafted equipment or ammunition that wasn't perhaps "factory stock" or "department issue".

Got any sources for this theory, any case law?

[JJH]

I would hardly consider polishing internals as long as you are not touching sear faces a "modification". The same can be said about changing out recoil spings ect, that line of thinking would also mean that changing the sights made the firearme more lethal All one would have to say about changing springs ect is that it was done for reliability reasons.

I would personally not use handloaded ammo, leaving that to what the department issued or approved. IANAL, but I only carry factory SD ammo in my daily carry weapons.

[MarkCO]

The general theme of such hypothetical questioning would be to make you out to be a vigilante who specifically went out looking for trouble with specialized self-crafted equipment or ammunition that wasn't perhaps "factory stock" or "department issue".

Got any sources for this theory, any case law?

No he does not because it is urban legend, gunstore commando BS. With that said, you should follow your department guidelines.

Henning is entirely correct. I have found the Gold Dots to be fairly smooth and work reliably when loaded up to the 1.200" length.

[ripplerAdder]

I just picked up my match in 10mm today! I love the thing but I did have a few nose dives as well as of now the gun is stock accept for over travel and sighting. Although it only happend a few times and I expected it after reading this forum but I would like remedy the situation. So far I've heard follower springs and recoil springs but I would like to know how they relate together. BTW I was shooting Atlanta Arms 180 gr and I chewed up 50 rounds with 4 nose dives. I also want to add that I love this gun and there is no doubt it's quality and not unlike exotic cars I know it will take some fine tuning but I enjoy that kind of thing I just need some guidance and was told this was the place to be.

EDIT: I have heard some had success having the ramp and throat polished?

Edited September 9, 2010 by ripplerAdder

[ripplerAdder]

After further investigations loading the magazines the followers seems to be the primary issue as you can extract on round then the round underneath with have no tension nose diving in to the ramp. I have oiled the follower and haven't thad much luck getting it to move freely.

[dbman]

The general theme of such hypothetical questioning would be to make you out to be a vigilante who specifically went out looking for trouble with specialized self-crafted equipment or ammunition that wasn't perhaps "factory stock" or "department issue".

Got any sources for this theory, any case law?

No he does not because it is urban legend, gunstore commando BS. With that said, you should follow your department guidelines.

You're right, I don't. As I said I am not a lawyer. I relayed a caution I have received from multiple (what I consider to be reliable) sources. Maybe that in itself makes it urban legend. Do what you want. Sorry I spoke out.

I apologize for the thread hijack, thirtycal. Maybe this can move to new thread if anyone else has more to say.

[ripplerAdder]

After further investigations loading the magazines the followers seems to be the primary issue as you can extract on round then the round underneath with have no tension nose diving in to the ramp. I have oiled the follower and haven't thad much luck getting it to move freely.

EDIT: Would removing one link in the spring help. I don't see how stiffer follower springs can resolve the follower issue.

Edited September 9, 2010 by ripplerAdder

[G-ManBart]

No he does not because it is urban legend, gunstore commando BS. With that said, you should follow your department guidelines.

Henning is entirely correct. I have found the Gold Dots to be fairly smooth and work reliably when loaded up to the 1.200" length.

Actually, Massad Ayoob posted a list of prior case law on this, but I don't have the exact link...I think it was on The High Road a year or so ago. Thread drift off....

I'll have to measure them for OAL, but Hornady factory 180gr XTP's have a pretty nicely rounded profile to them. It's what I keep in my Smith 610 hiking gun. They might be worth a try. R,

Edited September 9, 2010 by G-ManBart

[bubbadoc]

I don't have the link either, but Massad has written about some issues with mods, etc especially with trigger pulls in American Handgunner. That is why the MA Ed Brown pistol has a 4.5# pull

[Steve4102]

I have had similar problems with my Elite Match. I found that lubing the mag just creates more problems down the road, the more I shoot the more crap gets built up in he mag. I have been lubing my mags and followers with graphite, you know,the little tube you get at the Hobby store. Puff some powder into the mag and all over the follower and I am good to go for hundreds of rounds. BTW, I seat my 180gr JHP at 1.245.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Steve4102

[thirtycal]

Thanks guys all of the iffo is useful. I have the mags working for now. I plan on trying some grams followers and springs with hennings H-550 pad. At least for the first mag in the gun. The guns a tank already so whats another few mm out the bottom. And if 19rnds of 10mm won't stop an aggressive action then I don't know what will.

My other plans are an extended mag release. Heuning rolling trigger plunger. Generally just smooth everything out and maybe some night sights if i can get a smith to mill the slide. Have to check my waranty status first. Some thinner grips would be nice also. May not need the extended mag release with a smaller grip diameter.

Would a match upper be any better than the standard uppers? I have been considering getting match upper for my standard frame. Or just buying a match and converting it to Double Action. Alot of departments will not allow single action only. Either people forget to turn the saftey off or they can't keep their bugger hook of the bang switch. I guess I could also just get a stock but where is the fun in buying the gun you want straight out of the box.

As far as the ammo goes. I would say that 99% of departments will not let you carry anything but commercialy availabe ammo. Now range ammo can be anything you can cram in your gun. I have seen veteran officers putting 9mm in their .40s.