Will springs cause FTE?

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've been shooting BHP's for 45 years, with stock springs,

and with factory ammo - no problems with ejection.

Just got a "lower power spring", and bumped my ammo up

to 132 pf (147 gr MG, 3.8 gr W231, at 1.13". I use

9mm range brass (just like I do in my STI TruBor; clean

the brass the same; run it thru my Dillon Square Deal;

chamber check the rounds - just like in my TruBor - not

having any problems with the TruBor, just the BHP.

Every 50 - 100 rounds, the fired case will be stuck in

the chamber (mostly out of the chamber) but in front of

the next live round coming up the magazine.

I have only about 2,000 rounds thru this new spring -

and just cleaned the extractor for the second time.

I keep the gun well lubed when firing.

Since too strong a spring will cause stovepipes (?),

will too weak springs cause the fired cases to get

caught up in the line of the new live round?

Would I be better off with a slightly stouter spring

(I just ordered the diagnostic kit, with four different

springs).

This problem has persisted for six months with me

tinkering with the rounds, etc, and just when I think

it is all solved, I'll have another FTE. I've actually

got thru one entire match without a FTE, but then the

next match (Area 7:((( - I had three (3) FTE's.

Any thoughts will be appreciated.

If I can't get this fixed, I'll have to buy a Glock:((

Jack

[ParaGunner]

I assume this is a 1911 and your talking about a lighter recoil spring. Assuming all that, no a lighter recoil spring will not cause that. It sounds like your extractor needs more tension.

[Joe4d]

A couple questions to clarify, which spring are you talking about? Recoil ? hammer? sear ?. What model Hipower ? with or without firing pin stop ? internal or external extractor ? What is the "E" in your FTE's, extract or eject ?

Hipowers are not the same as 1911's, 9mm Hipowers are very happy running stock 17lb or extra power 18.5 lb recoil springs, they can benefit from a lighter mainspring, from factory ungodly to a wolff 26 or 28lb. Some people report light strike issues with the 26 I always ran my 9mm with 18.5lb recoil and 28lb mainspring for IDPA and ran about 130pf without issue, look at the brass hitting the ground set up properly brass should be about 6 feet away,

I am gonna assume you meant recoil spring, have an external extractor, but not sure about your "E" If the brass is staying in the chamber usually this is dirt under the extractor, but yours may be damaged or have a wore out extractor spring. With the spent brass in front of the next round that is what I would suspect. If the brass is coming out but not ejecting I would think it would end up behind the new round. but the light spring may have caused the tip of your ejector to be damaged,

I would closely examine your ejector and extractor replace the extractor spring as well as get rid of the reduced power recoil spring.

[Hi-Power Jack]

A couple questions to clarify, which spring are you talking about? Recoil ? hammer? sear ?. What model Hipower ? with or without firing pin stop ? internal or external extractor ? What is the "E" in your FTE's, extract or eject ?

Hipowers are not the same as 1911's, 9mm Hipowers are very happy running stock 17lb or extra power 18.5 lb recoil springs, they can benefit from a lighter mainspring, from factory ungodly to a wolff 26 or 28lb. Some people report light strike issues with the 26 I always ran my 9mm with 18.5lb recoil and 28lb mainspring for IDPA and ran about 130pf without issue, look at the brass hitting the ground set up properly brass should be about 6 feet away,

I am gonna assume you meant recoil spring, have an external extractor, but not sure about your "E" If the brass is staying in the chamber usually this is dirt under the extractor, but yours may be damaged or have a wore out extractor spring. With the spent brass in front of the next round that is what I would suspect. If the brass is coming out but not ejecting I would think it would end up behind the new round. but the light spring may have caused the tip of your ejector to be damaged,

I would closely examine your ejector and extractor replace the extractor spring as well as get rid of the reduced power recoil spring.

Joe, thanks for sharing the ideas - it is a three year old gun, so it has the external extractor, the brass is thrown about six feet away with a pf of 132. The extractor (and the ejector) are both brand new - installed by a competent gunsmith (Jim Garthwaite), and just recently examined by a local gunsmith who says they're both in "new" shape = no problem that he can detect with either the extractor or the ejector.

And, I cleaned the extractor after one thousand rounds because of the failures to eject - and again a few days ago - that doesn't SEEM to be the problem - problems started right after I picked the gun up - the first few hundred rounds thru it had an occasional failure to eject (the fired cartridge case remains partially in the chamber, with the new live round behind it). I'm not sure if that's a failure of the extractor or the ejector, or the springs? Or, something else?

There is no damage to the extractor or ejector -

So, does it sound to you like it's possible that a light recoil spring could cause this type of problem? It sounds like you're saying that you've run light springs without such a problem???

I'm going to try four different weight springs in the next few weeks - but with a 1% malfunction incidence, that is going to consume a thousand rounds of ammo to see if four different springs cause a FTE every hundred rounds, or so.

So, I'm real eager to hear if anyone has any other ideas - any other problems that could be causing the problems, or should I start changing springs and firing 250 - 350 rounds thru the gun to see if that "solves the problem"?

Thanks for any ideas you might have.

Jack

[Joe4d]

It still sounds to me like an extraction problem not a ejection problem, If the brass is still in the chamber it didnt extract, is the rim of the brass damaged like it looks like the extractor grabbed the brass and scratched across the rim ? Are you using some kinda super fast powder that might be over pressure? If your brass is hitting ground 6 feet away your recoil spring/mainspring/bullet seams about right. I would contact Jim Garthwaite, he is a very highly respected Hipower guru, Since he worked on the gun I am sure he will get it straight. It may be cheaper than wasting ammo and going to matches wondering if your gun is gonna run.

[Guy Neill]

Try putting the heavier recoil spring back in and see if the problem goes away. If so, stay with the heavier spring. If not, you need to look further.

I would lean to a heavier extractor spring since is sounds a bit like the empty case is catching on the new round rising up in the magazine and is being pulled out from under the extractor. A weak extractor spring won't show on a visual inspection.

Guy

[Hi-Power Jack]

If the brass is still in the chamber it didnt extract, is the rim of the brass damaged like it looks like the extractor grabbed the brass and scratched across the rim ?

Are you using some kinda super fast powder that might be over pressure? If your brass is hitting ground 6 feet away your recoil spring/mainspring/bullet seams about right.

I would contact Jim Garthwaite, he is a very highly respected Hipower guru, Since he worked on the gun I am sure he will get it straight. It may be cheaper than wasting ammo and going to matches wondering if your gun is gonna run.

Joe, sounds like some great ideas there - thanks.

I'm not sure that the brass has not "extracted" - it's partially in the

chamber, which means that it at least partially extracted, and possibly

was forced back into the chamber, partially, by the next round coming up,

if the empty case didn't eject quickly enough?

No, there's no scratches across the rim of the brass - and don't forget, 99/100

extract/eject perfectly.

I'm using WW231 (3.8 grains) behind a 147 grain MG bullet - getting a pf of 132 (at Area 7, last week).

So, no, it's not a super fast powder, or over pressure - no pressure signs on the primers.

I plan on contacting Jim, but since he's 150 miles from here, I'm trying to eliminate any,

and all, possibilities myself before I have to either spend a bunch of money, and take weeks

for Jim to look at the gun, to see if I can solve the problem easily.

So, before I send it back to Jim, I thought I'd try a stronger spring - have to

wait a couple weeks before I can get around to that, though.

Just wondering if anybody here, with experience, thinks that too light a recoil spring

could possibly be causing the problem I'm having? Is that worth spending a few hundred

rounds on before I call Jim?

[Hi-Power Jack]

Try putting the heavier recoil spring back in and see if the problem goes away.

I would lean to a heavier extractor spring since is sounds a bit like the empty case is catching on the new round rising up in the magazine and is being pulled out from under the extractor. A weak extractor spring won't show on a visual inspection.

Guy

Thanks for the option, Guy, I'll check with my local gunsmith Monday,

and see if he thinks that could be a problem - have him replace that

spring also - I didn't think of that one at all - so thanks.

Jack