Glock 35 Malfunction

[muahdib4]

Ok, any help diagnosing the problem would be helpful. First, the gun is running a stock trigger with a 3.5lb ghost connector, stainless steel guiderod with stock power (16lb-17lb)spring and a Glockworx competition spring set in the rest of the gun. On the magazines I have Dawson Precision magazine extensions with the +10 power springs on older mag tubes with the #6 followers. I was shooting Atlanta Arms & Ammo 180gr ammo making major (chrono at average of 973fps) and standard length ammo. Ok, that's the background on the full setup. Here's the problem I was having. Sometime, on MANY stages, the gun wouldn't fully seat the round into the chamber and when I did "tap/rack" it wouldn't extract the round. Then I had to drop the mag to finally get it to extract that round and when I would reseat the mag and sometimes it would experience the same problem. At first I thought maybe it was a mag issue so I short loaded the mag (to 18 instead of 19 rounds) and it seemed to run but then did it again on the stage after that. The gun was cleaned prior to the match and I clean the gun throughout every time I shoot it. All the problems happened while running the stage and not during inital load prior to the start signal. Any ideas on what the problem might be? I'm thinking it's an issue with the extractor or extractor spring. But thought I would see what everyone here thought. Any other info you would need? I don't have any close video of what was happening but I do have video of the match when the malfunctions happened, though probably not clear as to what was happening.

[Jman]

First thing I would try is a OEM recoil assembly. It "sounds" like it may be short cycling. Next, load up a few OEM mags and see if the problem persists. Let us know, we'll keep an eye on this thread.

[muahdib4]

I'll give that a shot. I've shot all year (2 matches a month) with things as they are right now and this is the first time I've had any problems at all. It was even more frustrating that it had to happen at my first major.

[SA Friday]

Gauge your ammo? It sounds like bulged brass getting jammed in the chamber to me.

[Graham Smith]

It does sound like it is short cycling or the extractor may not be working right. When you cleaned it, did you completely strip it down and remove all the parts in the slide? Check the extractor for any sign of wear or carbon fouling.

[muahdib4]

I just finished stripping the gun. Did a complete detail strip of the upper and lower and there seemed to be a lot of gunk around the extractor and safety plunger. I've soaked and scrubbed every single part of the gun now and will shoot it this weekend to see if that was the problem. Seems like the fouling may have not allowed the extractor to work properly. In some ways I hope that fixes the issue...in others, I kind of hope there's another issue. If the fouling was the issue then my gun not working at the Area match was 100% my fault for not detail stripping and cleaning the gun fully. You live and you learn I guess. I'll keep you informed so others know not to make the same mistake I may have made.

[Jman]

I have a feeling it's not the gunk. Glocks like a little gunk.

Sounds like a spring balance thing to me. It'll get ironed out.

Sorry it threw up at a Area Match though. Couple things....

Is this a new gun? And also, a few of us might have to give

you a demerit for that ghost connector thingy

...kidding of course. Some are out there running well I'm sure.

[muahdib4]

I have a feeling it's not the gunk. Glocks like a little gunk.

Sounds like a spring balance thing to me. It'll get ironed out.

Sorry it threw up at a Area Match though. Couple things....

Is this a new gun? And also, a few of us might have to give

you a demerit for that ghost connector thingy

...kidding of course. Some are out there running well I'm sure.

Nope, it's not a new gun. I got it 2 years ago and I've put about 5000 rounds through it...most of them being this year after the few changes I've made. This is the first time it's had any problems at all. The Ghost connector hasn't ever been a problem but yeah..seems nobody else uses them so I may look at a different one soon. It's just my luck that it would have issues on the one day it affected me the most. I need to just bite the bullet and buy a second one as a backup though I would rather have a 34. I was wondering though...if my 35 did have problems during a match...I could go to a backup gun as long it's the same and doesn't offer any competitive advantage right? Could I change to a 34 and redeclare as then shooting minor...including all the scoring for COF shot with the 35? Saying that even my previous scoring would then be changed to reflect shooting minor for final scoring or would that not be allowed?

[Jman]

I believe you can go to a back up as long as it's the same caliber that was chrono'd. I'm guessing. Not at all sure of caliber changes mid-stream. Good question to post in our Rules forum.

[rkjeepxj]

My 35 was doing something similar. It was like it was pushing the round into the chamber nose high. Meaning, it would ram the bullet into the uppper part of the chamber at such a steep angle it would wedge itself there and couldn't rotate into line with the barrel to continue foward.

I tried everything (COAL, springs, etc) and fianlly fixed it by going through all my mags and opening the feedlips up to a 0.390" gap. I measured all my mags (~12) and 0.385"ish was the widest factory one I had and some where down in the 0.345" range. I don't know what the factory gap spec is and couldn't find that info anywhere. Since opening them all up to 0.390" gap I havent had this problem at all in about 1000 rounds running an asortment of mags.

Here's my theory on what's happening. I was loading to 1.135" OAL and the lips being closer together held the next round in the mag down lower, thus when the slide came forward to pick it up it had to nose up at a more extreme angle to get in the chamber and thus ramming the bullet into the top of the chamber. Now with the magazine lips opening up slightly the angle is reduced (cartridge is more in line with the barrel) and the problem is resolved. I also found out if I loaded to 1.120-1.125"isht the problem mostly went away as well which would explain why factory ammo seemed to feed (most of the time, not 100%) and reloads wouldn't. I've done this on my Production and +5 Limited mags, for 2 different 35's and ahvent had a hiccup since.

[muahdib4]

My 35 was doing something similar. It was like it was pushing the round into the chamber nose high. Meaning, it would ram the bullet into the uppper part of the chamber at such a steep angle it would wedge itself there and couldn't rotate into line with the barrel to continue foward.

I tried everything (COAL, springs, etc) and fianlly fixed it by going through all my mags and opening the feedlips up to a 0.390" gap. I measured all my mags (~12) and 0.385"ish was the widest factory one I had and some where down in the 0.345" range. I don't know what the factory gap spec is and couldn't find that info anywhere. Since opening them all up to 0.390" gap I havent had this problem at all in about 1000 rounds running an asortment of mags.

Here's my theory on what's happening. I was loading to 1.135" OAL and the lips being closer together held the next round in the mag down lower, thus when the slide came forward to pick it up it had to nose up at a more extreme angle to get in the chamber and thus ramming the bullet into the top of the chamber. Now with the magazine lips opening up slightly the angle is reduced (cartridge is more in line with the barrel) and the problem is resolved. I also found out if I loaded to 1.120-1.125"isht the problem mostly went away as well which would explain why factory ammo seemed to feed (most of the time, not 100%) and reloads wouldn't. I've done this on my Production and +5 Limited mags, for 2 different 35's and ahvent had a hiccup since.

That seems like something else I should check out. When I get a chance I'll put the rounds from AA&A on a micrometer and see what the OAL is. I had been shooting ammo from Georgia arms previously and they never had this problem. Maybe the AA&A ammo is a bit longer but I've read that OAL of 1.135 is usually within tolerance for Glocks.

[Flexmoney]

- Case gauge all ammo (ALWAYS for a Major match).

- Replacement rod and spring end up with spring bind. Take a look and see if the spring has a little wave to it. This can result in a shorter slide travel (thus, not giving the mag time to work to bring the next round up.

- Around the time of the #6 followers, there were some variation in mag body design. Not all of those followers match up with all the mags.

- If you haven't taken a knife, razor, etc. and scraped off the hard carbon around the extractor and breech face...then you haven't cleaned your gun.

Shoot it in L-10 for a bit with stock mags.

Run the stock recoil rod and spring assembly.

Case gauge all ammo.

If that proves to work (after 500-1000 match rounds), then keep everything the same and add in an extended base pad.

[Rico567]

First thing I would try is a OEM recoil assembly. It "sounds" like it may be short cycling. Next, load up a few OEM mags and see if the problem persists. Let us know, we'll keep an eye on this thread.

I agree with this approach. Return pistol to stock. Change one thing at a time to see if there is a malfunction. If no malfunction then, try combinations of two things, etc.

[mlmiller1]

Case gauge the ammo first before you change anything on the gun. If you got a bad batch with a bulge at the bottom, it would not be you or your gun's fault(except you didn't case gauge your ammo) at all.

When it would not extract the round until you dropped the mag, was it like the round was "stuck" in the chamber or would it just not pull it out? If it felt "stuck", that is a definite sign the round is at fault.

MLM

[muahdib4]

Case gauge the ammo first before you change anything on the gun. If you got a bad batch with a bulge at the bottom, it would not be you or your gun's fault(except you didn't case gauge your ammo) at all.

When it would not extract the round until you dropped the mag, was it like the round was "stuck" in the chamber or would it just not pull it out? If it felt "stuck", that is a definite sign the round is at fault.

MLM

Well, it also happened MANY times and the ammo was purchased from Atlanta Arms & Ammo. I've never had any issues with their ammo and they have gotten fantastic reviews. I'm hoping and relying on the fact that their quality control is up to standard. I did case guage and measure the rounds I have left (about 200 rounds) from that order. Everything well within tolerances for those rounds.

Edited August 10, 2010 by muahdib4

[racerba]

- If you haven't taken a knife, razor, etc. and scraped off the hard carbon around the extractor and breech face...then you haven't cleaned your gun.

Most likely your problem. The gunk in the extractor will prevent the round from coming fully up in order to be pushed in to seat. It can also cause your failure to extract problem.

[muahdib4]

- If you haven't taken a knife, razor, etc. and scraped off the hard carbon around the extractor and breech face...then you haven't cleaned your gun.

Most likely your problem. The gunk in the extractor will prevent the round from coming fully up in order to be pushed in to seat. It can also cause your failure to extract problem.

I'm thinking that may have been the problem too. It was pretty nasty in there.

[Graham Smith]

FWIW, a police armorer I know swears by Johnson Evinrude Engine Tuner. He uses it on almost all firearms. Just strip them down, put the metal parts in a pan and spray a bit of this stuff on. Let it set a while and the carbon deposits come right off.

He also said that with AR's it seems to "coat" the parts to help prevent carbon build up. He's been using it on heavily used training rifles for 3 years now and he says that they run better now than when they were new.

[Cold Absolute Zero]

Give OEM mags a try, sounds like your mag springs may have weakened. If the gun runs with OEM mags then replace the springs in your limited mags. Additionally, like others have stated check under the extractor for chips or excess crud. If you clean it and it still doesn't run, I would switch out the extractor depressor plunger spring and extractor (both for ~24 dollars at top glock) and see if that works.

CAZ

[Jadeslade]

I had that once. Cleaned gun the night before. The locking block pin was put in last and the slide release spring was under the pin and not on top of it, where it was supposed to be. Gun acted exactly like your description. If it never happens again-there's your answer .

[muahdib4]

I'll keep that in mind as something else that "could" go wrong. I hadn't taken the lower apart so none of the pins had been out and it had run fine all year (6 previous matches without a problem plus the practice sessions). I have a new extractor and springs in my shopping cart from Midway in case it doesn't run during testing this weekend. I can get them literally overnight without having to pay extra shipping since they are here in Missouri too. Testing on Saturday will be with the original stock springs and factory stock mags and then change out things one at a time to eliminate any of those as the culprits as folks have suggested. If it was just the crudded up extractor and safety plunger area then it's 100% my fault for not being more proactive with my care of the gun.

[Cold Absolute Zero]

Testing on Saturday will be with the original stock springs and factory stock mags and then change out things one at a time to eliminate any of those as the culprits as folks have suggested.

Good call, let us know how it goes.

If it was just the crudded up extractor and safety plunger area then it's 100% my fault for not being more proactive with my care of the gun.

Yes and no, it's a Glock! lol you're supposed to be able to treat it like a lawn mower and still have it run reliably (I still clean mine though )

Good luck,

CAZ

[Jadeslade]

I'll keep that in mind as something else that "could" go wrong. I hadn't taken the lower apart so none of the pins had been out and it had run fine all year (6 previous matches without a problem plus the practice sessions). I have a new extractor and springs in my shopping cart from Midway in case it doesn't run during testing this weekend. I can get them literally overnight without having to pay extra shipping since they are here in Missouri too. Testing on Saturday will be with the original stock springs and factory stock mags and then change out things one at a time to eliminate any of those as the culprits as folks have suggested. If it was just the crudded up extractor and safety plunger area then it's 100% my fault for not being more proactive with my care of the gun.

OK. I hope it never happens again. Things like that happen when you clean a gun. I stopped cleaning my gun before matches-has to have 2-3 days of practice on it. Probably one of the issues already mentioned.

[JoshF]

Chris, if you have any more issues this weekend let me know and we'll take a look at it after the match.

[muahdib4]

Chris, if you have any more issues this weekend let me know and we'll take a look at it after the match.

Cool, though I won't actually be at the local match this weekend. I've limited myself to 2 matches a month for financial reasons and Area 3 plus the Kansas sectional were my 2 scheduled ones for this month. Looks like I'll be doing some trading for a new Glock 34 this week so I'll have a backup gun even though it would push all my rounds to score as minor. I've been discussing the legality of doing that in the rules forum. Plus, it will give me something to shoot in production later as well and fits the same rig I have now.