Grip Inconsistency

[doc540]

So, at the range today while drawing I wasn't getting a consistent grip on my 9mm Commander with traditional, double diamond grips (stocks, panels, etc.)

The range owner mentioned that my hands might not be "fitting" that grip system.

So, I've ordered a set of the Pachmayr American Legend grips panels with the rubber finger grooves.

I do practice dry fire drawing, gripping, and sight acquisition, but I'm really having to concentrate more than I suspect I should be concentrating on the grip.

I know for a fact that an inconsistent, "incorrect" grip adversely affects my accuracy.

Your thoughts?

Thanks

doc

like these: (and, yes, I'm aware of the rust potential)

Edited July 25, 2010 by doc540

[G-ManBart]

Finger groove grips will only make it worse because if you don't get your hand just right, you have to fix it. They were the rage for a very short time in USPSA history, like 30 years ago. They went away because they simply don't work well for what we're doing.

You simply have to slow down and learn to form the grip while the gun is still in the holster...or at least get most of the grip formed. Then, when you can do that consistently, work on drawing the gun, finishing the strong hand grip and getting the support hand on the gun (think of driving your first knuckle on the support hand into the bottom of the trigger guard). R,

[doc540]

....finishing the strong hand grip and getting the support hand on the gun (think of driving your first knuckle on the support hand into the bottom of the trigger guard). R,

That's what I'm not doing consistently.

And it seems I need more "mass" in the grip area with my long fingers. HK, Sig, and Glock grips seem to more naturally fit my hands than the traditional 1911.

thanks

Edited July 25, 2010 by doc540

[G-ManBart]

....finishing the strong hand grip and getting the support hand on the gun (think of driving your first knuckle on the support hand into the bottom of the trigger guard). R,

That's what I'm not doing consistently.

And it seems I need more "mass" in the grip area with my long fingers. HK, Sig, and Glock grips seem to more naturally fit my hands than the traditional 1911.

thanks

Go slow (very slow) draw the gun, get the support hand on properly, extend out normally, pause, then slowly reverse the process. Do that about a million times

[doc540]

....finishing the strong hand grip and getting the support hand on the gun (think of driving your first knuckle on the support hand into the bottom of the trigger guard). R,

That's what I'm not doing consistently.

And it seems I need more "mass" in the grip area with my long fingers. HK, Sig, and Glock grips seem to more naturally fit my hands than the traditional 1911.

thanks

Go slow (very slow) draw the gun, get the support hand on properly, extend out normally, pause, then slowly reverse the process. Do that about a million times

Like I didn't see THAT ONE coming.

[BradGannaway]

Some of this depends on how picky you are being about your grip.

There are always times, every now and then, that my grip is not "perfect". I realize, at those times, that it is not the gun, nor the weather, nor the way someone is looking at me, rather it is my mind.

If I get to the point that I seem to be having a bad grip more than acceptable, then I start back at the beginning........draw practice.

What always helps me is that I will start from whatever starting position......table, hands at side, hands above shoulders....whatever, and use a par timer. But, instead of going as fast as I can through the whole process, I intentionally slow down right before I "snatch" the gun. It's almost like a pause, which "makes" me think about a good grip. If you'll go to my website, go to the competition and upcoming events section, there are some videos of my` matches. You will see that "pause" in some of the videos.

I'm now working on "working' that pause out of my draw, but I'll tell you, it makes me grip the gun like I should, which is worth the extra .20 seconds it takes.

[doc540]

That makes total sense.

Just bought a CED timer from the Forum classifieds for dry fire practice, and I'll keep that "pause" on mind.

Overall, I think my fingers are just a tad long for the stock 1911 grips, so we'll see what this larger grip feels like.

And I appreciate your help.

[ParaGunner]

Practice,practice,practice then practice some more. Gman had a good point of going slow and be sure you get a proper grip then slowly speed up.

[Gordian]

In addition to G-man's very good advice, you may also want to experiment a bit.

Have you tried other 1911 style pistols and found one that fit your hand better? What was different about it? Thicker or slimmer grips, shorter/longer trigger, curved mainspring housing, magwell?

For me personally I don't start changing parts until I've dryfired the gun every day for at least an hour for 2-3 months. By then I can figure out if it something I truly need to change. I also hate spending money if I don't have to...

Good luck

[G-ManBart]

Thicker or slimmer grips, shorter/longer trigger, curved mainspring housing, magwell?

That's a great point. I find a big difference in getting my grip "just right" if the mainspring housing or magwell are different. On my 2011s I shape the grip a little at a time until I can grab it and have it feel exactly the way I want it to. R,

[raz-0]

I have big hands with long fingers. Lots of guns can give me problems, but 1911s are the worst. Most ship with flat mainspring housings these days, and they make the problem worse.  An arched mainspring housing and some reasonably thick panels makes it MUCH easier to deal with.  However, like with most guns I can't just jam the backstrap into the web of my hand, I have to make sure the frontstrap lands in the right place on my fingers so I'm not rotating the gun in my grip and putting WAY too much trigger finger on it. 

Some guns like the walther p22, I simply find hard to pull the trigger because my finger doesn't want to bend that far without starting to make a fist. That does all sorts of fun stuff to your accuracy. 

[doc540]

Trying out the Pachmayr American Legends with the finger grooves.

They feel great, but won't know the facts until I go to the range Saturday. How they shoot is more important to me than how they look, that's for sure.

[ParaGunner]

Good luck with the finger grooves, when trying to draw fast I could never get a good lined up grip.

[doc540]

Good luck with the finger grooves, when trying to draw fast I could never get a good lined up grip.

Wait....we're supposed to be doing this fast?

20 min of dry fire last night and they seemed to work well

The range tomorrow will tell the tale.

[vluc]

....finishing the strong hand grip and getting the support hand on the gun (think of driving your first knuckle on the support hand into the bottom of the trigger guard). R,

That's what I'm not doing consistently.

And it seems I need more "mass" in the grip area with my long fingers. HK, Sig, and Glock grips seem to more naturally fit my hands than the traditional 1911.

thanks

If the others fit you better, why aren't you shooting them?

[doc540]

Put 150 rnds downrange this morning with these big, honkin' Hogue wraparounds.

I like'em...consistently.

[G-ManBart]

Everybody that I know who's gone to those eventually takes them off. I'm not saying it can't happen that they really work for someone, but it's highly unlikely. I only say that so that if you start noticing things like grabbing the gun during the draw and find your fingers hitting the tops of the grooves, etc, you'll know it's time to switch to something else. I see guys put them on their 1911 at work and say "oh, these feel great"...they work fine until they're under even minor pressure and things go south. R,

[doc540]

[That sounds like most every other rookie "improvement" I've ever made.

I'll keep that in mind and pay attention to it.

I don't have huge hands, but I do play bass guitar professionally (40 years) and my tactile sense is something that speaks to me.

Those original 1911 stocks never have felt natural in my hands although I love the design and mechanical action of the gun itself.

Thanks for your forbearance with a noob. It must be entertaining.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Duane Thomas

[Duane Thomas]

Well, I"ll add my voice to the chorus decrying the finger groove grips. Truly, you'll never find a really good shooter running these things on their gun, they just make it all but impossible to slide your finger smoothly around the frontstrap during the draw.

To ensure consistency during the draw, work at building your grip backward. IOW, begin with the gun in a perfect grip, extended out in your shooting stance. Then do the draw in reverse, replacing the gun in the holster. STOP. With your hand still on the gun, memorize what that feels like. The angle of your wrist, your elbow, your shoulder, exactly how the gun feels in your hand. Now take your hand off the gun and drop it to your side. Instantly put your hand right back where it was, with the exact same attitude of wrist, elbow shoulder, that you just had when you took the perfectly gripped gun and put it in the holster without changing anything. This is your first move during the draw. Do that the requisite thousands of times, you start to get a pretty good grip with first hand contact to the gun in the holster.

[doc540]

Ok, I'll take them off and go back to the stock panels and make them work for me.

Thanks

done

Edited July 31, 2010 by doc540

[doc540]

re-read the book last night again

I'll try keeping my support hand lower when drawing. (the "slapping the belly button" routine)

Brian mentioned that it allows more time to adjust the grip if necessary, and that's exactly what I'm been struggling with: adjusting my support hand grip if it isn't right to begin with.

[G-ManBart]

re-read the book last night again

I'll try keeping my support hand lower when drawing. (the "slapping the belly button" routine)

Brian mentioned that it allows more time to adjust the grip if necessary, and that's exactly what I'm been struggling with: adjusting my support hand grip if it isn't right to begin with.

Good plan. Just think about driving that left forefinger (between the first two knuckles) into the bottom of the trigger guard and after a while it will seemingly just happen like magic

Edited August 12, 2010 by G-ManBart

[doc540]

MUCH better at the range yesterday.

Practiced the "belly" method and out of dozens of draws I only had one that required a readjustment.

I also worked on my awareness to driving into the bottom of the trigger guard.

Now practice..practice

thnx

[Duane Thomas]

Well, since the "slap the belly" technique is working so well for you, perhaps I should keep my mouth shut but I've found it helps me get the gun up high into line of sight much faster, for front sight pickup as the gun is still moving out toward the target, to slap the center of my chest, right between and inline with the nipples, instead of the belly, while drawing to gun to the support hand. I did the "slap the belly" technique for decades, and there's no doubt that, for me anyway, "slap the chest" works better. Maybe something for you to play with sometime, see how it works for you.

[doc540]

Well, since the "slap the belly" technique is working so well for you, perhaps I should keep my mouth shut but I've found it helps me get the gun up high into line of sight much faster, for front sight pickup as the gun is still moving out toward the target, to slap the center of my chest, right between and inline with the nipples, instead of the belly, while drawing to gun to the support hand. I did the "slap the belly" technique for decades, and there's no doubt that, for me anyway, "slap the chest" works better. Maybe something for you to play with sometime, see how it works for you.

Actually, it ended up being "high belly - low chest".

And, yes, I've found that extra moment to focus on the front sight as the gun is moving forward really helps, especially with my "challenged" vision through trifocals.