Equipment Rationale

[vluc]

Can someone explain the rationale behind the equipment restrictions for production class....why the mags and holster must be worn where they are at, what their style has to be, etc.?

Would there be that much of a competitive advantage if one wore the mags in front with different holders or used a Limcat/Safariland/Ghost?

Just trying to understand it all a bit better, unless the rationale is to get you to move to a different class where you can use those items.

[Flexmoney]

I don't know the motivation behind the rules.  It does put the gear and equipment in familar places for those that also shoot IDPA (or their carry guns. )

(Edited by Flexmoney at 8:40 am on July 10, 2002)

[kbear38S]

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Would there be that much of a competitive advantage if one wore the mags in front with different holders or used a Limcat/Safariland/Ghost?

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Yes.

There's a significant number of shooters who desire a division where they can use equipment like they use for CCW and do so without the handicap of competing against shooters with competition specific gear. It's also the sort of equipment more shooters are likely to already own and therefore opens a more affordable path into the sport.

[BSeevers]

Limcat/Ghost is for Limited/L10/Open. The hip bone location is where people shoot "real" guns. It is to standardize a location. Production is a "box stock" division. It is so we get all those people that have Glocks/Beretta Etc. that carry them to play. No modifications or raceholster location, no anything. Sort of like racing where everyone gets the exact same car.

As a minor point its also for the whiners that say "You need a $3000 gun to be competitive" What those people need is ten thousand rounds practice.

If I rode motocross I would have a "hot" bike. I might start out with a stock (production) bike but as my skills progressed I would either upgrade or get the latest racebike or racegun.

What will destroy the core values of Production is if it every takes off is the Factories will start producing a special version for competition. Sort of like a COPO Chevy or a special edition Dodge the factories produced for Pure Stock Drag racing. These cars had NO radios or A/C, no power steering, Acid dipped sheetmetal, plastic windows, no wipers. But they were Stock. I think you get it. That is WAY down the road if it every happened.

Production is good for the sport, especially if Glock, S&W and others get on board. That could raise our competition rewards and resources. I see paid RO's. $25,000 prizes, TV coverage. I know that would open up a can of worms but I don't hear Tiger complaining about 25 mil a year. Considering I can count how many boxes of bullets(2) I have right now. So getting them sent free or winning 10,000 would be nice. A brand new Buick Rivera wouldn't hurt. Production, Kept Pure, could get us there.

Thats why you can't turn it into a racegun. We got divisions for that. Its an even paying field.

[BSeevers]

PS Open and Limited are even playing fields also. The equipment has really stablized. Its pretty much the shooter now. I remember when you could buy your way to a win with the latest equipment. It ain't happening now but Production will help with perceptions. And as you know perception is everything. People see a $3000 gun and say I can't afford this. Then they go out and buy a $1500 set of golf clubs. Both take practice and skill and most of all money to get good at.  Some want it some whine about it.

[Steve Anderson]

It's also a great place to play if for some ungodly reason you don't prefer a 1911 and don't find all other (non-1911) handguns to be an abomination of the eternal spirit of ol' john moses...

I also feel that the glock is not really a double action gun, but that's a can o' worms I don't want to open...

I certainly like 'em, and don't mind competing against 'em, but I don't think they are true double action guns.

SA

[Vince Pinto]

Steve,

Glocks are considered by IPSC to be double-action because the generally accepted criteria for double-action is that "pulling the trigger causes the detonation activator to retract then fall".

The "detonation activator" (for want of a much better phrase !!), means the hammer or striker.

The generally accepted definition of "single-action" is "pulling the trigger causes the detonation activator only to fall", as with a 1911 style gun.

Of course there are always exceptions, such as the H&K P7, and this is why IPSC elected to have an approved gun list.

This way competitors can easily check if their gun is approved, without the need for individual interpretation.

[Steve Anderson]

Yeah Vince, I know all that...like I said, can o' worms!

Thanks Again,

SA