Vickers Mag Release and IDPA...

[ck1]

Picked up a Vickers extended mag release, for those who've never heard of one they're slightly longer than stock, but NOT as long as a Glock factory extended one.

Here's the thing: I've searched some topics on 'em and by most accounts it's decided that the part is ILLEGAL in IDPA SSP division... but I just can't see why, as the WAY longer factory extended mag releases ARE, and all the "slippery slope" and it's not "factory" enough arguments don't seem to hold water as it could be argued just as easily that some of the connectors and stuff that people use should be made illegal as well.

I dunno. I like the part, and in the spirit of IDPA (more so than many others) I run exactly what I carry, but if I wanted to use it (and not be a cheater) I'd have to move to ESP and run against single-actions with huge magwells and such... seems dumb.

I won't run it in IDPA as I don't want to ruffle anybody's feathers, but this rule should change IMO.

Opinions?

Edited May 15, 2010 by ck1

[dsmw5142]

I just use the factory extended. It's cheaper and legal. I think some of the rules are silly myself, but I enjoy the game, so I don't mind.

If you used it at a local match I doubt anyone would notice or even care. But I agree and respect you for your decision to play by the rules.

I really want to use my Wilson extended slide stop for my 1911PD, but talked to the state coordinator who happened to be at the match today, and found out that would be a no no (which I think sucks). I guess I will have to make a go at CDP without it when I'm ready.

It wouldn't be good to get used to something you can't legally use at a sanctioned match anyway. Even if they don't care at your club.

ETA: I just remembered something I read in the rule book a while back. It had to do with... a para or springfield ultra compact that is ported/compensated is obviously not more competitive than a full sized pistol... but they have to have some black and white and draw the line somewhere.

Edited May 15, 2010 by dsmw5142

[Duane Thomas]

I run a Glock 17 and Glock 34 in ESP. What's the big deal? BTW, you don't have 1911s with "huge mag wells" in ESP. A huge mag funnel won't fit in the box. What you get are small, carry appropriate mag funnels that take a single stack 1911 and make it about as easy to speedload as, well, a Glock with its comparatively huge mag well opening and taper top mag.

[pvhendrix]

I run a Glock 17 and Glock 34 in ESP. What's the big deal? BTW, you don't have 1911s with "huge mag wells" in ESP. A huge mag funnel won't fit in the box. What you get are small, carry appropriate mag funnels that take a single stack 1911 and make it about as easy to speedload as, well, a Glock with its comparatively huge mag well opening and taper top mag.

Duane,

What about the folks shooting STI 2011 pistols in ESP???

[Duane Thomas]

What about them?

[pvhendrix]

What about them?

They are not Single stack and are do have large magwells compaired to the Glock. So the original poster had some valid points, that you seemed to dismiss as untrue.

[Duane Thomas]

In order to fit into the IDPA box you can't have a mag funnel on an STI, the butt is too wide to start with. I have put both an STI and a Glock without mag funnels on the clock and there is no difference in how fast I can speedload them. So yes, I dismiss that concern as untrue.

[pvhendrix]

In order to fit into the IDPA box you can't have a mag funnel on an STI, the butt is too wide to start with. I have put both an STI and a Glock without mag funnels on the clock and there is no difference in how fast I can speedload them. So yes, I dismiss that concern as untrue.

Strange as my STI fits the box with the STI magwell with it shaved a little on each side without making the opening any smaller. This is true on several of other folks STI's I've observed at matches. I also reload the Glock without issue. However, everyone does not possess the same hand/eye coordination nor the time, experience, and dedication as others.

[Merlin Orr]

However, everyone does not possess the same hand/eye coordination nor the time, experience, and dedication as others.

That would be me.

My STI guns I have for IDPA all have magwells. A factory SVI magwell with no modifications, an STI magwell with a very light shave to the sides and an EGI magwell with no mods - all fit the box just fine.

With a really good mag change I can stab one in with no time lost with no magwell on the gun at all. However it seems I hit that perfect reload about one out of four tries. With a magwell, just a little one, I very seldom ever miss. I'll put a magwell on every gun I have as long as it's legal for the class I intend to use the gun for.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Merlin Orr

[ck1]

Was just speaking figurativly about the guns in ESP, was trying to make the point that my measly illegal mag release that's actually shorter than what's legal will have me in a division that allows a pretty long list of allowed mods... Guess I'll just use the standard one and give the Vickers one to somebody or something, whatever. It's even made from the same kind of plastic as the Glock one, the rule still seems dumb, but oh well life goes on.

[ben b.]

It's a struggle to keep a "stock service pistol" division in order, such that the guns actually are "stock service pistols". You should see what happens to "Sporter" class rifles in benchrest.

[JonInWA]

It's a struggle to keep a "stock service pistol" division in order, such that the guns actually are "stock service pistols". You should see what happens to "Sporter" class rifles in benchrest.

A couple of my thoughts, FWIW: First, while the issue of the Vickers/Tango Down magazine release is on its face relatively inconsequential, its allowance in SSP could trigger the proverbial "slippery slope" of after-market equippage allowances, which IDPA I think rightfully wants to avoid, particularly in SSP-as Duane has implied, that's exactly what the ESP division is for...

Second, if having an extra-length magazine release is that critical, and one wants to legitimately remain in SSP, simply get a Glock extended magazine release, which is specifically called out as being legitimate in the IDPA SSP rules.

Best, Jon

[ck1]

I've gone to a Gen4 G17, problem solved.

Buying a new gun for 2mm's difference in grip size, a better textured grip, and a bigger/better mag release seems kind of foolish... but after the fact, and after shooting a Gen3 G17 for years, it's really made the gun work better for me.

Yes, the new dual recoil-spring set-up is probably a little too stiff for the 9mm, but it's not nearly what it's been made out to be and it's completely shootable and it'll wear in.... and the Gen4's DO indeed shoot flatter, it's just that IMO they're flatter shooting because they have more weight up front under the barrel and that the new grip gives you so much better control over the gun.