38 special load length

[Resjudicata]

Is it possible to load a 38 special with the bullet seated deep into the case to get the overall load length similar to say a 38 short colt or 38 super? The reason I'm asking is that for Action Pistol loads the 38 special seems to take an aweful lot of powder to make a similar fps compared to shorter cases.

I'm looking to get 1050'ish fps out of a 125 grain jhp using N320, Titegroup or Clays and a 5 inch barrel. It looks like I should be able to do it with N320 or Titegroup with book data at 38 special lengths. But, the powder charge seems like a lot compared to what it takes with a shorter cartridge. So, I was wondering if it is possible to simulate a 38 super load by just seating the bullet deeper into the special case but with less powder. Sort of like using a hollow point instead of a wadcutter bullet but seating deep.

The benefit I'm looking for is that from another thread it appears that the more powder you use the more recoil you get. Even if it is possible to load deeper into the case would this give the result sought?

Thanks,

Chris

[Beladran]

Do you mean cut the case so that you have a compressed load? I am no expert but just for math purpose if you cut the length in half then your bullet has a very high chance of bouncing off the cylinder walls befor it gets to the forcing cone. Maybe if you cut the cylinder down to the new length and adjusted the barrel? Also a 38super generates 10,000 more psi than the max of a 38 spl.. advise caution If your pistol is ment to fire 357mag than you might be ok??

[Resjudicata]

I was thinking to leave the case alone and just seat the bullet deep into the case. If you've ever seen a wadcutter, it is seated down into the case so that not much if any bullet is showing outside the case.

Chris

[AzShooter]

Do not load shot in the .38 case. You will double the pressure at even .10 inch and can end up blowing up your gun.

Just buy some .38 short colt brass and load away. I'm using 3.4 grains of Solo 1000 to get 850 fps for minor and group 1 1/2 at 25 yards. Another good load is 3.2 grains of Red Dot. I'm still playingn with that. Four grains of Unique works well also and none will be over pressured in your gun. I've taken these loads from very old Lyman reloading manuals.

I don't trust loading witwh experimental data.

[Resjudicata]

Do not load shot in the .38 case. You will double the pressure at even .10 inch and can end up blowing up your gun.

Just buy some .38 short colt brass and load away. I'm using 3.4 grains of Solo 1000 to get 850 fps for minor and group 1 1/2 at 25 yards. Another good load is 3.2 grains of Red Dot. I'm still playingn with that. Four grains of Unique works well also and none will be over pressured in your gun. I've taken these loads from very old Lyman reloading manuals.

I don't trust loading witwh experimental data.

I'm not sure I understand your response. Were you drunk posting?

Chris

[DWFAN]

Talk to Ed tonight. He cuts down 38 special brass to use in his 8 shot for steel loads (yeah, not AP loads though). You could also just use Super brass and .356 bullets. pretty sure he's shooting that out of his 686 for AP loads and getting good accuracy.

Edited May 12, 2010 by DWFAN

[JimmyZip]

Why not just look up wadcutter loads and use that info? They are loaded with the projectile flush with the case mouth and slightly crimped too. Check it out.

ETA;

I just looked up this on the Hodgdon website, and got out a casing and calipers. My case measures 1.1555. That is pretty close to 1.160. All the LHBWC loads had an OAL of 1.160.Also, they all used a Hornady bullet of 148gr.

148gr LHBWC OAL 1.160 Clays 2.3 to 2.5

231 3.5 to 4.0

Titegroup 2.7 to 3.3

For all the info try your Hornady amnual, or the Hodgdon website. I udes to load wadcutters as a kid with my pop. They make nice clean holes in paper, and are pretty accurate at moderate distance. The website had all the pressure info that you should look over. Remember, and I know we all say this, but start .10 lower than the lowest and work your way up. Have fun!

JZ

Edited May 12, 2010 by JimmyZip

[Resjudicata]

Why not just look up wadcutter loads and use that info? They are loaded with the projectile flush with the case mouth and slightly crimped too. Check it out.

True. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any 125 grain wadcutters. Also, people seem to run wadcutter very slow. But, I may use them as starting loads this summer when I have more time to mess with this idea.

If I try this, I need to find a way to crimp further case. I've seen this type of crimp before on some factory loads. Is it a "roll crimp" that looks like the case is squeezed in further down the case rather than at the case mouth? If so, what equipment is needed for this?

Chris

[JimmyZip]

Hmmm.. well we were using a Rockchucker type press around 1979-80 loading for my little 4" S&W. The cases would get just the slightest bit of crimp on the end to make loading them easy. It was very little, but was noticeable. If the bullet is actually just.0005 outside the case, the crimp will just be at the edge of the projectile. Not like your gonna get setback or anything with these, I wouldn't guess anyway. If you look up the powder charges though, they are significantly lighter than the other type of projectiles. You are building pressures relevant to case capacity. Look up the website. All I'm really getting at though, is that it is a common, or was a common practice to load wadcutters flush with the case. Lighter wadcutters will take up less case volume, requiring more powder to build up the pressure. but you stilll would want to start low as you probably know anyway.

JZ

[gm iprod]

If you are using Dillon Dies they have a wadcutter seating stem for the 38Spl.

We have seated 150gr SWC flush with the case mouth and sometimes slightly below, they work but not well enough.

Any company that casts bullets using a Magma machine will have access to 105gr, 115gr, and 137gr, 139gr and 148gr Wadcitters. The 137gr (which we get at 135gr) is very popular in Australia for AP and their version of PPC. I have used them myself and they work very very well.

I load with Clays or Titegroup at present for that load and leave the brass full length and get the wadcutter bullet just in the right place to allow a tiny amout of crimp to hold it in place and to help with feeding into the chamber.