Multigun Nationals Staff

[LChico]

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Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

[Charles Bond]

Back on Topic (see warning from Flexmoney)

My reasons for working the Multi Gun Nationals, even though Staff cannot shoot the match

1. It's in Las Vegas! I am always looking for a good excuse for a trip to Las Vegas. In this case, the travel allowance from USPSA does not completely cover my travel costs, but it takes a pretty big chunk out of the cost of my flight. If you live closer, or live near a major airline hub where there are options on the flights, you will probably be able to cover the cost of travel.

2. You get to go back to the casino at night: Lots of options for entertainment and relaxing after a long day on the range. Even the budget accommodations in Las Vegas are nice. They understand hospitality in that town. Even before the economic downturn, there are plenty of low cost or free things to do.

3. Your spare time on & off the range can be spent with some of the best people: the MultiGun crowd is fun & just a little bit crazy.

4. The people who are working hard on this match are trying to change the perception of USPSA MultiGun. They are so dedicated to this mission that they are a joy to work with (Charlie, Larry, Rick and company - you guys are simply the best & I am excited to be associated with this match).

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 USPSA MultiGun Nationals Statistician

Linda's post has done an excellent job of stating why the match is in Vegas but it is important for what it does NOT say. It does not say that there are great range facilities there. It does not say it is comfortable to shoot there. Perhaps if we had a great range there and shooting was comfortable there we would have folks waiting in line to serve as a range officer. Linda does not say that there is lots of help available to run the match which is the reason this thread was opened.

I do not want to take anything away from the folks many of which Linda mentioned who worked so hard last year and who will certainly work just as hard or harder this year. But the fact remains that we just are not drawing staff and the jury is still very much out on whether we will do any better drawing members to shoot the match. USPSA needs to decide if the main attraction for the nationals venue should be the shooting or the other activities available.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Charles Bond

[LChico]

Back on Topic (see warning from Flexmoney)

My reasons for working the Multi Gun Nationals, even though Staff cannot shoot the match

1. It's in Las Vegas! I am always looking for a good excuse for a trip to Las Vegas. In this case, the travel allowance from USPSA does not completely cover my travel costs, but it takes a pretty big chunk out of the cost of my flight. If you live closer, or live near a major airline hub where there are options on the flights, you will probably be able to cover the cost of travel.

2. You get to go back to the casino at night: Lots of options for entertainment and relaxing after a long day on the range. Even the budget accommodations in Las Vegas are nice. They understand hospitality in that town. Even before the economic downturn, there are plenty of low cost or free things to do.

3. Your spare time on & off the range can be spent with some of the best people: the MultiGun crowd is fun & just a little bit crazy.

4. The people who are working hard on this match are trying to change the perception of USPSA MultiGun. They are so dedicated to this mission that they are a joy to work with (Charlie, Larry, Rick and company - you guys are simply the best & I am excited to be associated with this match).

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 USPSA MultiGun Nationals Statistician

Linda's post has done an excellent job of stating why the match is in Vegas but it is important for what it does NOT say. It does not say that there are great range facilities there. It does not say it is comfortable to shoot there. Perhaps if we had a great range there and shooting was comfortable there we would have folks waiting in line to serve as a range officer. Linda does not say that there is lots of help available to run the match which is the point of this thread to start there.

I do not want to take anything away from the folks many of which Linda mentioned who worked so hard last year and who will certainly work just as hard or harder this year. But the fact remains that we just are not drawing staff and the jury is still very much out on whether we will do any better drawing members to shoot the match. USPSA needs to decide if the main attraction for the nationals venue should be the shooting or the other activities available.

I am actually pretty good at saying EXACTLY what I mean. Rarely need help with that. I did not mention the range facilities or the shooting conditions because I did not shoot. Not because I thought they were not adequate - most of the shooters at the MultiGun match last year voiced their opinions in the appropriate thread & I do not recall complaints about the range. If we need to start a thread about Nationals locations, do so.

Back to topic: Range staff may spend their days on the range and no one is pretending that is not long days & work. However, having the match in a location that offers so many options "after hours" certainly plays into the decision for staff.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 USPSA MultiGun Nationals Statistician

Edited May 22, 2010 by LChico

[Charles Bond]

Linda and I share one thing in that we both love Vegas which is a draw for me when it comes to SHOT. But there is nothing about the venue there that thrills me when it comes to hosting a large match there. There are other ranges in other venues if a range in the western US is what we need. And I like shooting in the desert but not in Vegas.

I did hear many complaints about the range in the wake of last years multigun. I heard them from shooters. I also heard from staff.

[Sunny226]

Howdy,

Being a certified RO and having shot and worked major pistol and 3-gun matches, and even though I'm not available this year, I do have suggestions on getting ROs for the 3Gun Nats. Don't get me wrong, the casinos, resorts, etc., are fun places. My suggestions are based on activities I would want to do in Vegas as an RO there, and maybe have already been considered:

1. Tour of Nellis...The tour could be just for match staff, and, in similar fashion, the match could extend invitations to base staff to see (or compete) in the match. If not actually on the base, maybe an evening reception at the museum?

2. Hoover Dam...Because it's one the seven wonders of the modern world. And I can't resist learning more about good engineering

3. A side-match for staff only...Could be 3 or 4 of the stages selected for "Staff Side Match". These stages would be completed using vendor's firearms & ammo (like the shoot-off last year at the FB3G). I've seen the suggestion in previous comments, but since staffing and bringing all the gear can be cumbersome when traveling alone, how about this way?

Thank you for your time.

[Charles Bond]

Howdy,

Being a certified RO and having shot and worked major pistol and 3-gun matches, and even though I'm not available this year, I do have suggestions on getting ROs for the 3Gun Nats. Don't get me wrong, the casinos, resorts, etc., are fun places. My suggestions are based on activities I would want to do in Vegas as an RO there, and maybe have already been considered:

1. Tour of Nellis...The tour could be just for match staff, and, in similar fashion, the match could extend invitations to base staff to see (or compete) in the match. If not actually on the base, maybe an evening reception at the museum?

2. Hoover Dam...Because it's one the seven wonders of the modern world. And I can't resist learning more about good engineering

3. A side-match for staff only...Could be 3 or 4 of the stages selected for "Staff Side Match". These stages would be completed using vendor's firearms & ammo (like the shoot-off last year at the FB3G). I've seen the suggestion in previous comments, but since staffing and bringing all the gear can be cumbersome when traveling alone, how about this way?

Thank you for your time.

These are all solid suggestions. But if you are a range officer for one of the nationals or a potential range officer for these matches, you need to pass you suggestions up to the match directors of these matches. No matter how much sense a post makes here, sadly often those that need to see these ideas the most are not visitors to this forum.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Charles Bond

[ken hebert]

The idea that the range staff should get to shoot this match is a noble one. No one at USPSA wants to ignore their needs but the fact is that this is a match that is going to require at least 2 days to shoot if the range staff is going to shoot. We do not have any extra staff to run the range staff over 2 days prior to the main match and even if we had volunteers to come in and do this, the cost of doing so (providing housing and meals) for staff to run the range staff would inflate the costs of the match significantly.

The only way I know of that you could shoot the staff is to embed the range staff in squads and havce them move through the stages with the shooters and there are so many problems with that situation that it does not even bear listing. While that is a way to run a local match, it fails when you are trying to host a match of this level.

Having worked matches in the past, like many other shooters here, the staff shot the match the day before the start of the competitor match. Works out the kinks that may occur during a stage (hey, a guy might want to try to shoot this target from here and the bullet might go ever the berm/through wall/shoot through/ect). If you are planning to run 18 (?) 10+ man squads through (staggered squadding) a match per day for 2 days (thats 180+ shooters, with each stage seeing 90+ shooters a day), then i'm pretty sure that 36 responsible shooters, all RO's, could shoot those same 12 stages in one day (based on 12 stages with 3 RO's per stage)

Yes, it adds one more day to the match. RO's shoot for free in exchange for working the match, and get an equal chance at the prize table and awards.

What say you?

[Schutzenmeister]

[...]

Yes, it adds one more day to the match. RO's shoot for free in exchange for working the match, and get an equal chance at the prize table and awards.

What say you?

Ken Hebert for President ...

[Charles Bond]

Having worked matches in the past, like many other shooters here, the staff shot the match the day before the start of the competitor match. Works out the kinks that may occur during a stage (hey, a guy might want to try to shoot this target from here and the bullet might go ever the berm/through wall/shoot through/ect). If you are planning to run 18 (?) 10+ man squads through (staggered squadding) a match per day for 2 days (thats 180+ shooters, with each stage seeing 90+ shooters a day), then i'm pretty sure that 36 responsible shooters, all RO's, could shoot those same 12 stages in one day (based on 12 stages with 3 RO's per stage)

Yes, it adds one more day to the match. RO's shoot for free in exchange for working the match, and get an equal chance at the prize table and awards.

What say you?

I support the idea of the staff being allowed to shoot the match. But do not fall into the trap of thinking that because you have posted something here that anything will change. If you want to change the situation you need to move your ideas up the food chain at USPSA.

[ken hebert]

Well, as A6 director is thought you were in the food chain.

[Charles Bond]

Well, as A6 director is thought you were in the food chain.

And I am but one of nine Ken. But if you look at the USPSA Bylaws I have nothing to go with the match in question and neither does any other AD. If you wnat things to change quickly contact the MD who is the USPSA President according to the Bylaws. If you are content to wait until 2011 or 2012 lobby the ADs. But as of January 1, 2011 my area will have a new director and I believe that is the case with your area as well.

[ken hebert]

But you just told us in earlier posts that MV always hands off the MD job to someone else. Dont need to contact him, need to know who he passed the buck to.

Then we'll be on him like white on rice!

[Charles Bond]

But you just told us in earlier posts that MV always hands off the MD job to someone else. Dont need to contact him, need to know who he passed the buck to.

Then we'll be on him like white on rice!

Well since the appointed MD works for the USPSA President, would it not be better to contact the President who appointed him?

[Tyro Shooter]

Charley

I apologize for poking the bear and started this.

Just trying to see if I could help out and still have some fun shooting.

I'll check my vacation and flex days after July and I'll let you know.

I guess I was just jealous of that bitchen tan that Larry & Chris were sporting from pounding in all of those wall stakes.

Tim

And for the record (as if my opinion would ever count for anything any where ever)

“Any range where I can get a hot sandwich and a cool beverage with a 5 minute drive that does not involve 8 miles of single track bad dirt road . . . I’m down for that” . . . . I’m just saying!!!

You may now resume the thread drifted flame wars,

I believe you had left off at the MD /President,

How scoring works

The Rule Book vs the BoD and writing what you mean tangents.

have a nice day

[Charles Bond]

Charley

I apologize for poking the bear and started this.

Just trying to see if I could help out and still have some fun shooting.

I'll check my vacation and flex days after July and I'll let you know.

I guess I was just jealous of that bitchen tan that Larry & Chris were sporting from pounding in all of those wall stakes.

Tim

And for the record (as if my opinion would ever count for anything any where ever)

“Any range where I can get a hot sandwich and a cool beverage with a 5 minute drive that does not involve 8 miles of single track bad dirt road . . . I’m down for that” . . . . I’m just saying!!!

You may now resume the thread drifted flame wars,

I believe you had left off at the MD /President,

How scoring works

The Rule Book vs the BoD and writing what you mean tangents.

have a nice day

Actually I believe this is a great thread and we need more like it to get the feed back we need to better serve our membership.

[Tyro Shooter]

Please do not get me wrong, with the utmost respect intended

(warming up to the minor rant mode)

I do believe that this very important subject and it does need to be discussed in an open forum so that the people who influence and the people who make these decisions are well informed as to our thoughts and feelings on this subject.

But . . . . With that being said, this thread started off as a call for

Help from Charlie Brown for support to put on the best match they can.

MODS

Possible to split this up?

(Rant Mode Off)

I apologize . . . it’s been a bad morning here on the Range

[Flexmoney]

But . . . . With that being said, this thread started off as a call for

Help from Charlie Brown for support to put on the best match they can.

Agreed.

Let me put it this way... Ever drive a bunch of spikes for walls and fault lines? Imagine you are the guy swinging the hammer and you have 15 stages worth of fault lines and walls to get nailed down. You ask for help. What you get is one guy telling you you are holding the hammer wrong... One guy saying he'd grab one of your hammers and lend a hand, buttt you don't have his favorite hammer... Another guy is pissed at the dude in charge of hammer buying... And, yet another is counting hammer swings.

Drive a freakin spike!

If you aren't looking to work this match, or help get it staffed (this year)...then STFU.

(Not that some of what has been mentioned wouldn't make for great discussion, it just doesn't belong HERE on this thread).

Admin.

Btw, if this post sound a bit gruff, then you should have pulled your head out and read my first two prior Moderator notes. Hell, Linda even referenced them for ya. I normally wouldn't put out a third note. I'd kill the thread. But, that wouldn't be fair to the opening poster. He ought to be able to come here and do a call for staff without getting an earful.

[High Lord Gomer]

WooHoo! I'm definitely going to try to do this.

Would I like to shoot it? Yes.

Is it still worth going if I don't shoot? Definitely!

Last week I had the pleasure of going out to the range with Charlie, Larry, Jeffrey, and crew and shooting a 3-gun match. They are great people and I would like to help them put on the fine match that I know they are capable of doing.

I am somewhat limited on additional days to take off. Do I need to be there the 8th or the 9th?

Now to see if I can get my MG Cert before then!

[LChico]

I don't care what everyone else says about you , you are okay in my book!

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 USPSA Multigun Nationals Statistician