Precision Shooting

[georgel]

This is a two part question...

I'm working on building a "precision" AR and I'm new to the idea. Does anyone know what kind of competitions are out there? Yardages and target sizes are what I'm intrested in. Basically, is MOA or sub-MOA the requirement? Are there any "tactical" precision events that don't regularly go out to 300+ yards?

Second, how critical is parallax in a practical application? I was thinking about using a fixed 10x scope. I know parallax increases with power. This relates to the above question. For practial events, is it necessary?

Thanks

[George]

For 3 gun & IPSC rifle, a fixed 10x scope on a long barreled AR is not going to be very practical. But a 24" bbl with a hi powerered scope would be just the trick for tack driving plinking and varmint hunting, just not for any competition formats I am aware of.

Benchrest is gonna take a lot of development work to get there with a semi-auto. The AR is an accurate platform, but you just don't need a semi-auto here. Rats ass MOA is required for benchrest.

NRA highpower rifle allows the AR to compete in both divisions. In standard A2 configuration in Service Rifle division, and anything goes in the Match Rifle division. All sights must be iron type in High Power though, no optics allowed. Sub MOA is rewarded here.

USPSA MOR (Manually Operated Rifle) can be approached with an AR, but it needs to have the gas system disabled and a few other mods to make it perform as well as the bigger calibers do at distance.

The power isn't there for metallic sillouette (gotta reliably knock em down to score) so that's not gonna be an open venue for an AR in .223

The tactical sniper competitions are pretty specific to larger calibers again.

The ITRC in Wyoming pairs an AR type rifle shooter with a long distance larger bore rifle shooter. The IPSC 3 Gun configuration AR would probably work best here.

If you really want to compete with an AR in an organized event structure, IPSC, 3 gun and High Power are the only real games in town. My best advice is to build up two uppers (or rifles), one a low rail flat top with 1:8 20" bbl and a USPSA Limited legal muzzle brake. You can basically shoot most of the competitions available with this upper by just changing sighting systems. The other upper as a DCM legal A2 configuration with a 20" 1:7 bbl would allow you to shoot NRA High Power Rifle at a very competitive level. If High Power isn't your cup of tea a long bbl'd varmint rifle could be another upper configuration available for plinking fun.

One MOA will take the prize on most days at most matches if "you" can get it out of the gun when it's needed. Speed is more important in tactical shooting sometimes. Accuracy is seldom the only criterion for a competition firearm system.

Parallax isn't an issue with iron sights in High Power. Neither is it critical with the sighting systems used in most IPSC rifle and 3 gun shooting because 1 to 1.5 MOA is typically good enough there.

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Regards,

[kellyn]

Good post, george

[DogmaDog]

Highpower rifle requires iron sighted guns and you shoot round bullseyes at 200, 300, and 600 yards.

The target at 2 and 300 yards is the same-a 7" 10 ring and a 13" 9 ring, and concentric rings out to 5. At 600 yards the target is bigger, but the angular size of the rings isn't appreciably larger.

Getting a gun and ammo that will shoot well at 600 is somewhat tricky ("float a good barrel" to quote Glenn Zediker). Getting yourself to shoot well at 200 (offhand) is really tricky.

Judging by what I see on AR-15 manufacturer's web sites, "varminting" is a popular activity for AR-15 owners. I don't know if it can be done competitively or not. I suppose you could go to the outskirts of Prairie Dog Town, North Dakota and see who can shoot the most dogs...or go after Nutria in New Orleans.

Good luck,

DogmaDog

[james h]

If you take a look at the IPSC rifle rules i think they say that its 50% at 5-100m 30% at 100-200 and nothing over 300m ,BUT i may be wrong .so absolute precision is not nescessary ,just very desirable.

j

[George]

Hi Kelly,

Tanks'

Hopin' to make it to SSM3G this year (if work don't mess me up). See ya there, or the nats or RM3G, gonna make it to all of them (and some more) if I have anything to say about it.

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BTW georgel, here is some more stuff on AR rifle competition.

Links to some of the major 3gun matches:

USPSA 3 Gun Nationals

Superstition Mountain Mystery 3 Gun

MGM IronMan 3 Gun

Rocky Mountain 3 Gun

Glen Zediker has two books out that are a must for anyone into accurate AR's. The Competitive AR-15 (the mousegun that roared!), and Handloading For Competition. Glen is a High Power shooter but his stuff is applicable across the board.

www.zediker.com

Rules for the ITRC

Three places that build super accurate competition AR's and supply custom parts that are not run-of-the-mill stuff:

Medesha Firearms

Accuracy Speaks

JP Rifles

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Regards,

[pmd]

georgel,

If you are interested in NRA Highpower Rifle - Then The Florida Highpower forum is a great place to post questions and get info - you might have to register to gain access - here's the link http://forums.delphiforums.com/FlaHighpower/start

If you are looking to build an AR in "Service Rifle" or "Match" configuration I'd reccommend using either

Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering http://compasslake.com/

or

John Hollinger at White Oak Precision http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/

Both builders are great guys and well respected in the HighPower community

Best of Luck!

PMD

[georgel]

Thanks for all the replies and references.

I'm already shooting 3-Gun. (And love it!) For a change, I guess I was looking for something a little slower paced and more precise than the 3-Gun I"ve been shooting around here. Less beat the clock and more emphasis on a well placed shot. Most of the rifle COF's I've been involved with have been short-range CQB style, 35yds or less with IPSC/IDPA type scoring, sometimes steel plates out to about 200yds.

Standard paper punching isn't what I was looking for either, although it may be a good exercise. I did find one site that under the high power rifle catagory was listing things like dum-dum suckers, balloons and empty soda cans as targets at various ranges. Hmmm...

What I would envision is a COF with ranges to about 300yds with most shots in the 50 to 150 yard range with targets 1-2MOA in size. Cover, concealment and hostages as obstacles. Firing from braced positions, maybe from around corners, under vehicles, etc. Does this describe any thing existing you guys have shot?

[DogmaDog]

Hmmmm.

Doesn't describe anything I've shot. What it sounds like to me is you want something like a 3 Gun course of fire, but you just want it to be "tougher".

Maybe you could try designing some 3 gun stages with harder shots--lots of hard cover and no shoots and only headshots available at 100 yards, and nothing much closer.

The Dum Dums and soda cans sounds like a carnival shooting gallery. Could still be fun, but sounds like something for a good .22 rather than a "tactical" rifle.

DogmaDog

[kimel]

If you want something COMPLETELY different try Boomer Shoot. One of the local IPSC shooters runs this event and it a real blast (pun absolutely intended).

Work related travel has managed to interfer every year so I have not actually been to the match but I have been around when Joe has been testing mixtures and target containers...lots of fun.

If you are interested get your entry in fast. Joe is advertising in national publications this year so it will fill very quickly. The precision rifle clinic that happens on Saturday is also given very high marks by those that attend.

[georgel]

kimel, the Boomer shoots DO sound like a blast! (Pun intented.)

Dogma, you're right. It sounds like I want something in between. I was thinking I had heard of some "tactical" precision (I don't like the "S" word.) COF's being developed. Something with practical targets at intermediate ranges.

Maybe I'll start something at one of my local ranges.

[Chriss Grube]

GeorgeL,

Other than the short distances you listed there are a number of Sniper/tactical matches that have that very format. Most are down around Texas. They go from 30 yards to 1000+.